Owens and Zayn in the ARMBAR??!

[DNA 2.0]

According to Dave Meltzer, current plans are for Owens and Zayn to compete in the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal...

Okay. What?

I'm taking this report with a pitch of salt, since Dave hasn't been so accurate as of late, but judging from the way SD has been booked, it wouldn't surprise me to see something like that. And I don't get it. I don't get how Smackdown has become such a big mess. It's obvious that they DON'T have an end game for Owens and Zayn right now.

My idea was to at least have a triple threat match with Bryan as the referee. Shane vs Owens vs Zayn. Winner stays on SD, losers leave. But c'mon, you can't put them on the battle royal...

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Hopefully this is wrong, but Owens and Zayn are WAY above some meaningless battle royal.

Like the OP suggested, do some random match with Shane at this point. Break them up in the next month, and have a one on one match. Anything but this.

[Yaz]

Counter point, they are not above the ARMBAR.

First we will take Sami. Apologies to Sam, but since coming to WWE (not NXT) what has Sami done? Sami, is a jobber. Jobbers fill battle royals. The ARMBAR is a battle royal, it is right in the name. Here is a list of names with more accomplishments that Sami Zayn who weren't above a meaningless battle royal.


Alberto Del Rio
Baron Corbin
Big Show
Big E
Bo Dallas
Cesaro
Sheamus
David Otunga
Darren Young
Dolph Ziggler
Primo and Epico
Xavier Woods
Kofi Kingston
The Great Khali
Goldust
Damien Sandow
Curtis Axel
Heath Slater
Jason Jordan
Uso 1 and Uso 2
Justin Gabriel
Jinder Mahal
Luke Harper
Miz
Mark Henry
Rey Mysterio
R-Truth
Ryback
Rhyno
Santino
Titus O'Neil
Zack Ryder


All of those men have more WWE accomplishments that Sami, and they were in the ARMBAR.

On the other side, Kevin Owens has a solid list of WWE accolades, but unless they throw Shane and DBry back out to keep up this story that no one likes, then he won't have a story going to Wrestlemania, and the ARMBAR is for guys with no story at Wrestlemania.

I know, I know. "But KO and Sami are so good, FIGHT FOREVER!!!1!ONE" I have no desire to see them fight again, not yet anyway. Nothing has changed since the last time they fought. KO is still one of the worst champions of any kind in recent memory, and Sami continues to be a goofy guy who loses a lot. What story is there to tell this? Oh well Sami trusted KO again, and KO turned on him, again. No. that's boring. What if Sami is the one to turn on Owens this time? An interesting what if, but I don't think Sami would get the responses needed to be a top heel if Owens isn't there to heel it up too. I also don't see what Owens has to offer as a face in the long run.

All that aside, yes, the ARMBAR has become worthless because the winner gets nothing of value other than standing next to a shitty looking trophy for a couple of weeks. Yes, Sami and Owens are talented and more often than not should be guys with stories going. Yes, the Shane story has completely made the two look like idiots and has been overshadowed by the shitty power struggle story. And yes, we likely won't get a resolution that involves the two the entire story started around. Let's not pretend though that just because you like someone, that they are somehow above things. Owens and Sami, as much as I do like them, are not major players. People who were on the fence about it will not rush out to buy a ticket over these guys. Neither are anything more than cogs in the WWE machine right now and are easily replaceable. The appeal pf yet another Sami/KO match just isn't enough to justify a spot on what is already shaping up to be a Wrestlemania where the tertiary players are left out in the cold.

[Jack-Hammer]

Counter point, they are not above the ARMBAR.

First we will take Sami. Apologies to Sam, but since coming to WWE (not NXT) what has Sami done? Sami, is a jobber. Jobbers fill battle royals. The ARMBAR is a battle royal, it is right in the name. Here is a list of names with more accomplishments that Sami Zayn who weren't above a meaningless battle royal.


Alberto Del Rio
Baron Corbin
Big Show
Big E
Bo Dallas
Cesaro
Sheamus
David Otunga
Darren Young
Dolph Ziggler
Primo and Epico
Xavier Woods
Kofi Kingston
The Great Khali
Goldust
Damien Sandow
Curtis Axel
Heath Slater
Jason Jordan
Uso 1 and Uso 2
Justin Gabriel
Jinder Mahal
Luke Harper
Miz
Mark Henry
Rey Mysterio
R-Truth
Ryback
Rhyno
Santino
Titus O'Neil
Zack Ryder


All of those men have more WWE accomplishments that Sami, and they were in the ARMBAR.

On the other side, Kevin Owens has a solid list of WWE accolades, but unless they throw Shane and DBry back out to keep up this story that no one likes, then he won't have a story going to Wrestlemania, and the ARMBAR is for guys with no story at Wrestlemania.

I know, I know. "But KO and Sami are so good, FIGHT FOREVER!!!1!ONE" I have no desire to see them fight again, not yet anyway. Nothing has changed since the last time they fought. KO is still one of the worst champions of any kind in recent memory, and Sami continues to be a goofy guy who loses a lot. What story is there to tell this? Oh well Sami trusted KO again, and KO turned on him, again. No. that's boring. What if Sami is the one to turn on Owens this time? An interesting what if, but I don't think Sami would get the responses needed to be a top heel if Owens isn't there to heel it up too. I also don't see what Owens has to offer as a face in the long run.

All that aside, yes, the ARMBAR has become worthless because the winner gets nothing of value other than standing next to a shitty looking trophy for a couple of weeks. Yes, Sami and Owens are talented and more often than not should be guys with stories going. Yes, the Shane story has completely made the two look like idiots and has been overshadowed by the shitty power struggle story. And yes, we likely won't get a resolution that involves the two the entire story started around. Let's not pretend though that just because you like someone, that they are somehow above things. Owens and Sami, as much as I do like them, are not major players. People who were on the fence about it will not rush out to buy a ticket over these guys. Neither are anything more than cogs in the WWE machine right now and are easily replaceable. The appeal pf yet another Sami/KO match just isn't enough to justify a spot on what is already shaping up to be a Wrestlemania where the tertiary players are left out in the cold.

Yeah, I pretty much have to agree with all this. I like Sami Zayn, the guy's got loads of talent but he hasn't accomplished squat on the main roster that would place him above the battle royal. Kevin Owens, in my opinion, is something of a different story as he's been a consistently major player since hitting the main roster.

Would I like something better done with them? Sure, no question. At the same time though, at least they'll be on the show and will be able to share in the biggest payday of the year. It could be worse. I mean, it doesn't look like Vince has settled on what to do with Braun Strowman. There's talk of Strowman taking Reigns' place if this steroid investigation that's going on actually comes up with something. There's still talk of Strowman being added to the IC title match, there's even talk of putting Strowman in some sort of throwaway match or segment. There's even talk that Sheamus & Cesaro won't even have a match on the card at all, so Strowman and the Bar MIGHT be in worse shape than Sami and Kevin for WrestleMania.

[Uncle Sam]

"Jobber" is a little harsh. Jobbers don't fight the WWE Champion on pay-per-view. But no, neither are above the ARMBAR. And really, the choice right now appears to be between that and another fucking Shane McMahon match in which he beats up actual wrestlers, so ARMBAR me the fuck up.

[Yaz]

Jinder did. He even managed to win.

That second point is great though. People say "well put them in with Shane" but why? Shane was fine in his Atitude Era role, because he was just fucking crazy and jumped off high shit and got thrown around and refused to quit. Current era Shane, 45 year old Shane, goes toe to toe with the fucking Undertaker and pisses us all off. Since Shane came back, he has had one watchable match, the opening match of Wrestlemania against Styles. Styles is this generation Bret Hart in that he could wrestle a broom and make it good. I don't need to see Shane out wrestling KO (again) or Sami.

Look on the bright side. If you put them there, maybe they plot to help one win. Maybe they screw each other and kick start another feud. Maybe one of them wins and gets to cross their arms for a few weeks. All three of those are preferable to Shane.

[Theo]

I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than they should be. I get it. We love Sami and Kevin. We want to see Sami and Kevin do big things. I have no issue with that. But I'd rather see those guys fight in the Andre the Giant battle royal than fight Shane McMahon. My buddy suggested Sami and Kevin make it a case that Cena not win the match and that leads us to Shane and Cena against Sami and Kevin. I nearly threw up. I never want to see Shane McMahon fight again, so the battle royal is certainly an upgrade to that in my eyes.

Sure we can have them fight. I mean, it's Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens, they are going to fight forever. That's cool, I like that. Just not right now. I want to see them roll together for awhile before we hot shot them back into feuding with each other. Let that build grow stronger and have a big time match at Summerslam. In a perfect world I'd say let them fight The Usos. The Usos deserve a spot on the main card at Wrestlemania. They're the best tag team on the planet and I'm willing to fight someone over that claim. Let them face Sami and Kevin and just blow the invisible roof off the stadium there in Orlando. If that's not an option, I'm fine with them competing in the battle royal. I welcome it. Put some bigger names in there, try and build it as something. In fact, I want Sami and Kevin to be the first ever co-winners of the Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal. Give me that.

[DNA 2.0]

C'mon guys.. maybe Sami deserves to be in the battle royal, but freakin Kevin Owens?! The whole deal of pairing Sami with Kevin was to bring Sami up, not push Owens down.

Kevin Owens has:
Defeated Cena clean
IC champion x2
US champion x3
Universal champion x1
Beat Shane inside HIAC

How do you put such a guy in a battle royal??

There are a million other things they could have done:
a) keep the as a team and book Usos vs ND vs KO/Zayn vs BB in a four way ladder match. AWESOME

b) some much with Shane

c) start a feud with Orton

d) start a feud with Roode

e) have them answer the Bar's open challenge. In storyline they go to RAW to get away from Shane

You just can't have these guys on the ARMBAR. That's beyond crazy and lazy. Owens headbutted VINCE MCMAHON. How can a guy that has gotten physical with Vince McMahon not be considered a big time player???

[Uncle Sam]

C'mon guys.. maybe Sami deserves to be in the battle royal, but freakin Kevin Owens?! The whole deal of pairing Sami with Kevin was to bring Sami up, not push Owens down.

Kevin Owens has:
Defeated Cena clean
IC champion x2
US champion x3
Universal champion x1
Beat Shane inside HIAC

Aside from the victory over John Cena - which posed the question "Is this vicious newcomer better than John Cena?" and promptly answered it with "No, definitely not, nothing to see here" - none of those achievements did anything to help Owens gain any real traction. He's marginally above Zayn on the totem pole, only because of his (woeful) Universal championship reign.

That said, I do like the idea of them regrouping in the tag division, largely because I'm from the controversial school of thought that wrestlers look better when having fire matches rather than being bullied by an unusually buff trust fund kid.

[Yaz]

C'mon guys.. maybe Sami deserves to be in the battle royal, but freakin Kevin Owens?! The whole deal of pairing Sami with Kevin was to bring Sami up, not push Owens down.

Kevin Owens has:
Defeated Cena clean
IC champion x2
US champion x3
Universal champion x1
Beat Shane inside HIAC

How do you put such a guy in a battle royal??

There are a million other things they could have done:
a) keep the as a team and book Usos vs ND vs KO/Zayn vs BB in a four way ladder match. AWESOME

b) some much with Shane

c) start a feud with Orton

d) start a feud with Roode

e) have them answer the Bar's open challenge. In storyline they go to RAW to get away from Shane

You just can't have these guys on the ARMBAR. That's beyond crazy and lazy. Owens headbutted VINCE MCMAHON. How can a guy that has gotten physical with Vince McMahon not be considered a big time player???

A) A clusterfuck ladder match at Wrestlemania? Truly groundbreaking

B) HAHAHAHA NO!

C) You mean start a feud with the guy who had been involved in about one original feud in five years and hasn't been in an interesting feud in even longer? That seems like money

D) Roode is already involved in a program that will likely carry him into Wrestlemania, and it likely won't get him off the pre-show. Even if it does, Roode needs a marque W

E) This is the best option, but at the same time, it is simply a title shot for the sake of a title shot. What has Owens (Or KO/Sami as a team) done to deserve any form of title shot?

And the reason Owens is not a big time player is because he isn't booked accordingly. Jinnder Mahal was World Champion for six months, but he wasn't a major player because no one bought it. You can have Owens beat up Vince, Shane, Stephanie, the deformed McMahon sister they keep locked in a basement in Stanford. None of it matters if they book him like a loser, and they have.

He needed outside interference to beat Shane McMahon. His Universal Title win was used as a building block for lackluster Triple H part time feud #4 (which Owens wasn't even part of). His entire lackluster run as Universal Champ was used to build to a lackluster US Title feud with Jericho. The Face of America thing was terrible for the three weeks that lasted. So yeah, Owens is not a major player because he isn't booked like one.

Besides, go back to that earlier list. Big Show is a former World Champion and got physical with McMahons more than once. Yeah, he is up there is age but he has been in each one thus far. Kane is another who fits both those criteria. The Miz and Mark Henry were both World Champions. Del Rio as well. Ditto Rey Mysterio and Sheamus.

Look, I get it, you don't want a guy, or guys, you like being in a pointless match at the biggest show of the year. Nothing at all wrong with that, but to pretend that 1) They are somehow above the match based on pre determined accomplishments and 2) That any of the other options you suggested (Minus Shane) are anything other than pointless as well, well pretending those things is just silly.

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Fuck it, it's a good idea as any. It would make the ARMBAR watchable at least. K.O and Sami running wild and eliminating dozens of wrestlers would be fine by me.

[smarkmouth]

WWE will want eyes on the ARMBAR this year as the HBO documentary is slated for release a few days later. I'm not surprised that a few main roster upper-carders are rumoured for the match. I've said in another thread that it would be cool if some people in the match called out Cena for being "too good" for the Battle Royal. Sami and KO would be a good choice to do that.

[DNA 2.0]

A) A clusterfuck ladder match at Wrestlemania? Truly groundbreaking

B) HAHAHAHA NO!

C) You mean start a feud with the guy who had been involved in about one original feud in five years and hasn't been in an interesting feud in even longer? That seems like money

D) Roode is already involved in a program that will likely carry him into Wrestlemania, and it likely won't get him off the pre-show. Even if it does, Roode needs a marque W

E) This is the best option, but at the same time, it is simply a title shot for the sake of a title shot. What has Owens (Or KO/Sami as a team) done to deserve any form of title shot?

And the reason Owens is not a big time player is because he isn't booked accordingly. Jinnder Mahal was World Champion for six months, but he wasn't a major player because no one bought it. You can have Owens beat up Vince, Shane, Stephanie, the deformed McMahon sister they keep locked in a basement in Stanford. None of it matters if they book him like a loser, and they have.

He needed outside interference to beat Shane McMahon. His Universal Title win was used as a building block for lackluster Triple H part time feud #4 (which Owens wasn't even part of). His entire lackluster run as Universal Champ was used to build to a lackluster US Title feud with Jericho. The Face of America thing was terrible for the three weeks that lasted. So yeah, Owens is not a major player because he isn't booked like one.

Besides, go back to that earlier list. Big Show is a former World Champion and got physical with McMahons more than once. Yeah, he is up there is age but he has been in each one thus far. Kane is another who fits both those criteria. The Miz and Mark Henry were both World Champions. Del Rio as well. Ditto Rey Mysterio and Sheamus.

Look, I get it, you don't want a guy, or guys, you like being in a pointless match at the biggest show of the year. Nothing at all wrong with that, but to pretend that 1) They are somehow above the match based on pre determined accomplishments and 2) That any of the other options you suggested (Minus Shane) are anything other than pointless as well, well pretending those things is just silly.

Clear something up for me. Do you believe that Owens should be booked as a big time player or not? Because if you believe that Owens should be booked as a big time player and that he is GOOD, then you know that you can't just throw him in a battle royal. Sure, Owens' year sucked. But Randy's was worse. Randy, by your logic, also deserves to be in the ARMBAR. And why should Roode be at the main card in a proper feud and not Owens?

Yeah, they don't have anything going for him at the moment. But the fact that he's being placed in there, doesn't mean that he deserves to be in there. He's there because creative just fucked up and decided to leave them without any proper feud.

[Yaz]

Clear something up for me. Do you believe that Owens should be booked as a big time player or not? Because if you believe that Owens should be booked as a big time player and that he is GOOD, then you know that you can't just throw him in a battle royal. Sure, Owens' year sucked. But Randy's was worse. Randy, by your logic, also deserves to be in the ARMBAR. And why should Roode be at the main card in a proper feud and not Owens?

Yeah, they don't have anything going for him at the moment. But the fact that he's being placed in there, doesn't mean that he deserves to be in there. He's there because creative just fucked up and decided to leave them without any proper feud.

He is good. He isn't great, but he is good. If creative hadn't booked Owens like a loser for the past, well the better part of a year, he would be worthy of having a story going into Wrestlemania. The moment he got paired up with Shane, it was a death sentence, because we all started to see just how much the creative team looks at Shane and sees $$$. Owens is not a guy who transcends the product that you are losing business if you don't book him into a storyline for Wrestlemania, and given that after Fastlane they will have less than a month to build something for him, I don't want to see something rushed just for the sake of putting him in something.

Like I said, he is not Cena who will draw people in no matter the story. He isn't Orton, who still draws. He isn't Roman who is the most over guy on the roster in terms of drawing a response. He isn't AJ, who has had some of the best booking since he came to WWE and is arguably the best pro wrestler working today. He isn't an attraction like Lesnar or Rousey, or even on a lesser level like Trips or Angle. The fact is, Owens, for as much talent as he has, does not transcend the product in ways other guys do and him being in a throwaway battle royal is not some great travesty. Since he got to WWE, he has been booked as a secondary player, which truth be told, I think absolutely suits him. Since his program with Cena, nothing he has done has made a lasting impact and his Universal title reign caused viewership to decline. Most will call it shitty booking, some will point to Owens not being as talented as smarks would like him to be, but the fact is that Kevin Owens in WWE is not Kevin Steen in ROH. Yeah, there will be people on internet wrestling boards who piss and moan about this, but they will still watch, so it isn't having any impact on anything at all.

You also ignore the possibility that KO and Sami being in the ARMBAR is a catalyst for something. Maybe they play up the great disrespect they are being shown by being put here. Maybe it is simply the lazy option to set up their next program through some form of in ring encounter. More likely though, this is WWE signaling they are giving up hope on Owens to ever be anything more than a secondary player.

[klunderbunker]

Just....why? We've spent months and months building up Shane and/or Bryan vs. Owens/Zayn and now we're just dropping that for what? Some Shane singles match that gets thrown together in a month? This is the kind of stuff that gets on fans' nerves and makes Smackdown nearly unwatchable at times.

Now that being said, Sami and Owens going to the battle royal is another bad idea as odds are they won't win. Instead, odds are we'd be seeing them thrown out and fighting each other later as a result while some midcarder wins the battle royal. That's fine if the winner goes somewhere, but the battle royal doesn't have the best track record. This would be another item on the list of things that make your head hurt about this year's Wrestlemania.

[DNA 2.0]

Just....why? We've spent months and months building up Shane and/or Bryan vs. Owens/Zayn and now we're just dropping that for what? Some Shane singles match that gets thrown together in a month? This is the kind of stuff that gets on fans' nerves and makes Smackdown nearly unwatchable at times.

Now that being said, Sami and Owens going to the battle royal is another bad idea as odds are they won't win. Instead, odds are we'd be seeing them thrown out and fighting each other later as a result while some midcarder wins the battle royal. That's fine if the winner goes somewhere, but the battle royal doesn't have the best track record. This would be another item on the list of things that make your head hurt about this year's Wrestlemania.

Wait.. it gets worse. Here is another rumor, as to who WWE wants to win the battle royal. He's a big name and WWE hopes he will bring publicity just in time for the Andre documentary.

Goldberg

['Ravishing' Ned Flanders]

They would at least make me want to watch the ARRMBAR this yearcas opposed to skipping it so that's a check in the plus column.

Matches like this need top(ish) talent so people give a fuck. I don't see anything wrong with them being in it.

[Yaz]

They would at least make me want to watch the ARRMBAR this yearcas opposed to skipping it so that's a check in the plus column.

Matches like this need top(ish) talent so people give a fuck. I don't see anything wrong with them being in it.

Hey! Milenko coming in with the solid point. The ARMBAR is basically the de facto piss break now that we are supposed to care about the women. If you fill it with 30ish low card guys, then people will give zero shits as opposed to the two or three shits they currently give. You need some uppercard guys to bring name value to make the match worthwhile.

And let us not pretend that battle royals are not the fun type of clusterfuck. Yeah, just like the Rumble, you will have your Curt Hawkins do nothing of note and your R-Truth spend three or four minutes at a time hooking himself lazily on the ropes while a couple of guys pretend to try to lift him, but you are also going to get fun spots. Cesaro bodyslamming Big Show over the top rope was a cool moment despite nothing coming of it. The way the crowd erupted when Damien Sandow finally stood up to Miz was great. Even seeing that uninformed security guard try to keep Gronk from doing his job last year was fun. Even the mid match spots have been memorable at times. Mark Henry eliminating all three members of 3MB at once, Fandango dancing on the apron and Sheamus beating twenty+ forearms into his chest. Cesaro uppercutted Rey out of mid air to eliminate him. Kofi has done his save routine. Wrestlemania 32 had Shaq and DDP (and Tatanka) to spice things up.