Free Speech Is Dying In The United Kingdom

[Fallout]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/youtube-comedian-count-dankula-guilty-hate-speech-nazi-dog-video-145920581.html

If you find a dog being taught how to do a nazi salute "grossly offensive", you should actually rethink your life, or at the very least ignore it and find something else to occupy yourself with instead of punishing a man for making a joke on the internet. It's also indicative of the double standards that exist towards extremist ideologies in the United Kingdom and the western world in general; I'm sure if I made a video of my cat in a ushanka with a hammer and sickle, the courts would not bat an eyelid.

You can argue whether or not the joke was funny, or if it was in good taste, but the fact that a man is being convicted for this, whilst the police in this country did nothing about rape gangs in Telford (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/12/1000-children-victims-worst-uk-abuse-ring-telford) should deeply disturb you, and be an indication that the British police force does not have its priorities straight.

[Барбоса]

If you are teaching a dog to a Nazi salute on Nazi commands, you need to rethink your life.

[Lee]

Are you shitting me? Surely you know how the police work? Those investigating those who deal with hate crimes in Scotland are not the same as those investigating rape in Telford.

Then there's the fact that he trained his dog to respond to evil commands. Hitler saying gas the jews etc. you want that as freedom of speech? That's not freedom of speech that being a horrible bastard.

[Lee]

Also freedom of speech is not a constitutional right in the UK. We have the freedom of expression unless the law says otherwise. The Communications act of 2003 does on this occasion.

I have a feeling you would have been against the Christian couple who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple.

[Fallout]

If you are teaching a dog to a Nazi salute on Nazi commands, you need to rethink your life.

You can't tell me with a straight face that this is worth conviction over.


Are you shitting me? Surely you know how the police work? Those investigating those who deal with hate crimes in Scotland are not the same as those investigating rape in Telford.

Then there's the fact that he trained his dog to respond to evil commands. Hitler saying gas the jews etc. you want that as freedom of speech? That's not freedom of speech that being a horrible bastard.

I know that, but it's indicative that the resources are being allocated in the wrong places. Don't you think it's a problem that child rape gangs are being placed on the backburner, especially when the UK authorities think that making a dog do a Nazi salute is worth allocating resources towards?

Also, "evil commands" is laughable and comparing it to an authoritarian statesman legislating the genocide of an entire ethnic group is about the biggest leap in logic you could muster.

[Барбоса]

It doesn't take many resources to investigate a potential crime when he videoed himself doing it.

As for whether it is conviction worthy or not, I would say that it is borderline and his excuse is weak. Saying such things at all is irresponsible and such stupidity is just asking for trouble. He gets no sympathy from me.

[Fallout]

It doesn't take many resources to investigate a potential crime when he videoed himself doing it.

As for whether it is conviction worthy or not, I would say that it is borderline and his excuse is weak. Saying such things at all is irresponsible and such stupidity is just asking for trouble. He gets no sympathy from me.

No, but does it require any?

I would say he doesn't need an excuse; it's not as if he's made any threats of violence towards an individual or group, something that would be more debatable (a Nazi salute on its own is not an incitement of violence, otherwise historical documentaries would be down the shitter). Is it stupid? That's subjective, but I'd say it's stupid. What's objective is that the most harm this is going to cause is a few hurt feelings, before those people offended find something else more to their liking and move on with their lives.

[Lee]

Believe you me, I know a lot more what's happening with grooming investigations than you will ever know. Don't you fucking dare use that as an excuse for a fucking idiot breaking the law.

[Барбоса]

Of course, he needs an excuse.

If he doesn't have one, then he is a Nazi, posting Nazi propaganda and calling for the extermination of Jews...

[JGlass]

Guys, Sargon of Akkad clearly told Fallout what to think on this issue, so don't bother trying to change his mind. The sheep (Fallout) has been placed in his pen (being an alarmist about non-issues).

[Fallout]

Believe you me, I know a lot more what's happening with grooming investigations than you will ever know. Don't you fucking dare use that as an excuse for a fucking idiot breaking the law.

So you know that this is predominantly a problem with certain Muslim men (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/09/grooming-gangs-muslim-men-failed-integrate-british-society/) in the United Kingdom, and that political correctness and the fear of being branded as racist has obstructed justice.


Of course, he needs an excuse.

If he doesn't have one, then he is a Nazi, posting Nazi propaganda and calling for the extermination of Jews...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8fwS3ZTKbk


Guys, Sargon of Akkad clearly told Fallout what to think on this issue, so don't bother trying to change his mind. The sheep (Fallout) has been placed in his pen (being an alarmist about non-issues).

Rich coming from the guy who made a thread on Wrestlezone mocking SJW's. Guy potentially being sent to jail is fine, but someone on a wrestling forum being removed from admin (something I for the record also disagree with) is serious business.

And don't mislabel me, I'm a sheep-shagger, not a sheep.

[JGlass]

Rich coming from the guy who made a thread on Wrestlezone mocking SJW's. Guy potentially being sent to jail is fine, but someone on a wrestling forum being removed from admin (something I for the record also disagree with) is serious business.

And don't mislabel me, I'm a sheep-shagger, not a sheep.

The fact that you thought I was mocking SJWs with that thread shows that you don't have the critical thinking skills to comment on political issues.

Also, most sheep fuckers are sheep so...

[Fallout]

The fact that you thought I was mocking SJWs with that thread shows that you don't have the critical thinking skills to comment on political issues.

Also, most sheep fuckers are sheep so...

So you weren't mocking SJW's?

It figures, I suppose.

[Lee]

You haven't got a clue.

[Fallout]

You haven't got a clue.

If you can't separate me as a person from my political opinions, then I really don't know what to tell you. If you think my political opinions are retarded, that's fine, I respect your opinion, but the fact you removed me from the WZCW Discord over this shows that you're taking my opinions way too seriously.

[Spidey]

Whataboutism, bro?

[Stone Cold Tea]

It's a stupid thing he did but I can see the point Fallout is making. Guys gets arrested for this but poppy burners get off.

[Wildcat66]

Guys, Sargon of Akkad clearly told Fallout what to think on this issue, so don't bother trying to change his mind. The sheep (Fallout) has been placed in his pen (being an alarmist about non-issues).

Sargon of Akkad is probably up there with some of the most arrogant political 'pundits' on YouTube I have ever seen. Also, his hatred for pretty much 'SJW' is ridiculous more often than not. Now, I myself am not a SJW, but I agree with some of the core fundamentals of them, such as equal liberties for all genders and races. Do I like how most of them go about it? No, but I can at least respect them for at least trying to make the world a better place.

Now onto the subject of the dog being taught the Nazi salute: I'm all for freedom of speech, but he made a big mistake trying to joke about Hitler. Hitler may very well be one of the worst human beings that has ever existed, from gassing the jews to turning Germany into a totalitarian dictatorship that would make even North Korea blush, there's a good reason you don't hear many Hitler or Nazi jokes that don't make fun of the Nazis or Hitler himself.

I can understand that he wasn't trying to be hateful and he was having fun, but there are some lines you shouldn't cross. And unfortunately, this is one of those lines. It's a sad reality, but it is what it is. It doesn't help his case that he's now currently being defended by alt-right icons such as InfoWars's Alex Jones and Tommy Robinson.

In short: There's telling a joke, and then there's going too far (be it deliberately or accidentally). In this case, he didn't know the consequences and went too far. I can understand that he wasn't intending to hate on Jews or anything of the sort, unfortunately: The majority of the world doesn't take too well to casually joking about Hitler or the Nazi. If he had chosen something else to annoy his girlfriend (which was apparently the original point of the video), perhaps he would've fared better off. But it didn't go that way: So now, he has to face the consequences.

[Fallout]

Now onto the subject of the dog being taught the Nazi salute: I'm all for freedom of speech, but he made a big mistake trying to joke about Hitler. Hitler may very well be one of the worst human beings that has ever existed, from gassing the jews to turning Germany into a totalitarian dictatorship that would make even North Korea blush, there's a good reason you don't hear many Hitler or Nazi jokes that don't make fun of the Nazis or Hitler himself.

Charlie Chaplin and Monty Python both made jokes about Hitler. I'm obviously not saying what Dankula did was on the same comedic wavelength, but comedy is subjective and citizens have the right to tell jokes, even if it offends, so long as it does not actually infringe upon someone's rights (such as threatening, or inciting violence)



I can understand that he wasn't trying to be hateful and he was having fun, but there are some lines you shouldn't cross. And unfortunately, this is one of those lines. It's a sad reality, but it is what it is. It doesn't help his case that he's now currently being defended by alt-right icons such as InfoWars's Alex Jones and Tommy Robinson.

Neither of those people are alt-right. Alex Jones is a paleo-conservative conspiracy theorist. Tommy Robinson is probably closest to a nationalist. Good examples of alt-right individuals are Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, Andrew Anglin and Jean-Francois Gariepy, because they wish to attain a white ethnostate (completely preposterous by the way). And even if those individuals spoke out in favour of Count Dankula, that does not make the conviction any less ridiculous.



In short: There's telling a joke, and then there's going too far (be it deliberately or accidentally). In this case, he didn't know the consequences and went too far. I can understand that he wasn't intending to hate on Jews or anything of the sort, unfortunately: The majority of the world doesn't take too well to casually joking about Hitler or the Nazi. If he had chosen something else to annoy his girlfriend (which was apparently the original point of the video), perhaps he would've fared better off. But it didn't go that way: So now, he has to face the consequences.

No, he doesn't have to face the consequences. The status quo, for all of its advancements, is not always right. You acknowledge that Dankula was not intending to spew hatred towards Jews, as do most people, so why on earth should he be punished for it?

[Wildcat66]

Charlie Chaplin and Monty Python both made jokes about Hitler. I'm obviously not saying what Dankula did was on the same comedic wavelength, but comedy is subjective and citizens have the right to tell jokes, even if it offends, so long as it does not actually infringe upon someone's rights (such as threatening, or inciting violence)

And I agree! Comedy is subjective and people have the right to tell jokes. But the difference between Charlie Chaplin, Monty Python and Dankula was that Charlie and Monty were making fun of the Nazis. That in itself is perfectly fine with the general public. Dankula did not do that.



Neither of those people are alt-right. Alex Jones is a paleo-conservative conspiracy theorist. Tommy Robinson is probably closest to a nationalist. Good examples of alt-right individuals are Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, Andrew Anglin and Jean-Francois Gariepy, because they wish to attain a white ethnostate (completely preposterous by the way). And even if those individuals spoke out in favour of Count Dankula, that does not make the conviction any less ridiculous.

If Alex Jones isn't seen as alt-right, then why do many people in the alt-right know and like his work? RationalWiki has also categorized Alex Jones as being a part of the alt-right and he himself has had contact with several alt-right personalities over the years. Tommy Robinson may not be as popular a name, but nationalism is a trait most people in the alt-right tend to have.


No, he doesn't have to face the consequences. The status quo, for all of its advancements, is not always right. You acknowledge that Dankula was not intending to spew hatred towards Jews, as do most people, so why on earth should he be punished for it?

It's like I said before. People do not take fondly about talking to Hitler in a positive manner because he represents a dark time for Germany and the world in general. He's one of the main reasons World War II got started and it's likely he would've taken over all of Europe had the United States not been invaded by Japan or declared war.

And again, I do have some sympathy for him. But since people do not like others talking about one of the most reviled figures in history in a positive manner or even like neo-nazis in generals, Dankula is going to face consequences. It isn't an assault of free speech, it isn't a sign of it dying out either. It's simply a case of someone making a really bad decision in life and now he's going to have to deal with it.

[Fallout]

And I agree! Comedy is subjective and people have the right to tell jokes. But the difference between Charlie Chaplin, Monty Python and Dankula was that Charlie and Monty were making fun of the Nazis. That in itself is perfectly fine with the general public. Dankula did not do that.

A dog is being trained to raise its paw in a certain way. I'd say that's mocking Nazi's and their overly authoritarian regime and conformity towards it.



If Alex Jones isn't seen as alt-right, then why do many people in the alt-right know and like his work? RationalWiki has also categorized Alex Jones as being a part of the alt-right and he himself has had contact with several alt-right personalities over the years. Tommy Robinson may not be as popular a name, but nationalism is a trait most people in the alt-right tend to have.

1: RationalWiki is a joke. I've seen less bias on Uncyclopedia and Encyclopedia Dramatica combined, and they're at least self-aware that they're satire.
2: Many of the actual alt-right (white supremacists who seek an ethnostate) only like Alex Jones ironically because of his stupidity; otherwise, they consider him a shill.
3: Contact with the alt-right does not an alt-right make.
4: Being a nationalist /=/ being alt-right.



It's like I said before. People do not take fondly about talking to Hitler in a positive manner because he represents a dark time for Germany and the world in general. He's one of the main reasons World War II got started and it's likely he would've taken over all of Europe had the United States not been invaded by Japan or declared war.

Let's not tangent too much onto history. Nobody is talking about Hitler in a positive manner here.



And again, I do have some sympathy for him. But since people do not like others talking about one of the most reviled figures in history in a positive manner or even like neo-nazis in generals, Dankula is going to face consequences. It isn't an assault of free speech, it isn't a sign of it dying out either. It's simply a case of someone making a really bad decision in life and now he's going to have to deal with it.

Are people free to tell him that his joke is not funny, and for them to think he's potentially a neo-nazi? Sure, that's free speech in of itself. But there's a clear difference between subjective opinion, and being punished by the law of the United Kingdom. This is clearly the latter.

['Ravishing' Ned Flanders]

But there's a clear difference between subjective opinion, and being punished by the law of the United Kingdom.
Did he break the law?

[Fallout]

Did he break the law?

Is the law nebulous in its definition to begin with? (hint: yes)

['Ravishing' Ned Flanders]

Is the law nebulous in its definition to begin with? (hint: yes)
So you're not going to answer my question?

[CyberPunk]

As an outsider looking in, I find this part hilarious and part sad. The context of the joke was the guy wanted to make his girlfriend's pug "the least cute thing" because his girlfriend always raved about the dog's cuteness.

Is the joke unfunny? Could be. Humor is subjective. The more important thing to find here is, was it really hate speech? I saw the original video and I didn't find any evidence of hate speech. At most, it was a poor attempt at humor that could've offended some people. But I find it really ironic that making Hitler look foolish is a punishable crime. If there was ever a time to quote 1984...

[Dave]

The guy who made the video, Markus Meechan (AKA Count Dankula) is one of my best friends. Proof of which I can prove if need be. Regardless of that, I want to clear a couple of things up. First of all, what he did was stupid. He apologised for it, so that shows some sort of remorse. Second, Markus is actually communist. He has never been a Nazi and never will be. He was once presented with free shares from our work, worth hundreds of pounds, and rejected them. What he says was his reason for making the video was 100% the reason. Third, if this video hadn't had made the front page of Reddit, no one would have batted an eyelid. He's a victim of his own success to many degrees. Fourth, as I pointed out, he knows it was stupid and potentially offensive. But to he sent to jail for this is ridiculous. We've all did worse and said worse at some point, it's ludicrous.

[Lee]

I know he's one of your best mates, but what he did was idiotic. I may have done stupid things here and there but I'm not getting $900 a month off Patreon or have 60K followers on twitter or god knows how many youtube subscribers. Oh and I've never thought "I wonder if I can make the dog seem not cute by getting it to do a Sieg Heil at Hitler videos". Absolute stupidity and not potentially offensive, it is offensive.

Read what the guy from the Jewish council says in this from September. Read the full quotes as to why it is https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jewish-leader-tells-nazi-dog-11148574

[Dave]

I know he's one of your best mates, but what he did was idiotic. I may have done stupid things here and there but I'm not getting $900 a month off Patreon or have 60K followers on twitter or god knows how many youtube subscribers. Oh and I've never thought "I wonder if I can make the dog seem not cute by getting it to do a Sieg Heil at Hitler videos". Absolute stupidity and not potentially offensive, it is offensive.

Read what the guy from the Jewish council says in this from September. Read the full quotes as to why it is https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jewish-leader-tells-nazi-dog-11148574

To be fair, he didn't have any of that before the video.

[Yaz]

You are either defending Nazi imagery or attacking Islam, neither is a good look. Given your history of bringing up Islam in the past I'd say you are a thinly veiled Islamophobe.

[CyberPunk]

I know he's one of your best mates, but what he did was idiotic. I may have done stupid things here and there but I'm not getting $900 a month off Patreon or have 60K followers on twitter or god knows how many youtube subscribers. Oh and I've never thought "I wonder if I can make the dog seem not cute by getting it to do a Sieg Heil at Hitler videos". Absolute stupidity and not potentially offensive, it is offensive.

Read what the guy from the Jewish council says in this from September. Read the full quotes as to why it is https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jewish-leader-tells-nazi-dog-11148574

Incredibly stupid, yes. But does it warrant jail time? Are you saying that offending someone unintentionally warrants jail time? Does context matter?

[Fallout]

You are either defending Nazi imagery or attacking Islam, neither is a good look. Given your history of bringing up Islam in the past I'd say you are a thinly veiled Islamophobe.

I'm vehemently against Wahhabism, Salafism, Deobandism and other forms of extremist Islam because of the countless inexcusable crimes against the West that have been committed in their name, and the fact that they have been sheltered by others under the guise of political correctness. I think that's perfectly acceptable.

[Uncle Sam]

Bringing up Islamic rape gangs apropos of nothing in a thread about a man teaching his dog to do a Nazi salute is... entirely unsuspicious.

[Fallout]

Bringing up Islamic rape gangs apropos of nothing in a thread about a man teaching his dog to do a Nazi salute is... entirely unsuspicious.

It's a secondary point to say that there are obstructions of justice in our society that need more attention than this. Honestly, I don't know why we veered off on this specific point.

[JGlass]

It's a secondary point to say that there are obstructions of justice in our society that need more attention than this. Honestly, I don't know why we veered off on this specific point.

It's funny how when you regurgitate talking points from extremist ideologies people tend to focus on the extremist ideologies. It's like how nobody ever talks about Hitler's paintings.

[BaconBits]

It's like how nobody ever talks about Hitler's paintings.

That’s mostly because his paintings aren’t that good. If they were better paintings, I’m sure some morons would somehow use them to explain how he wasn’t a monster.

[Alex]

Thatâ??s mostly because his paintings aren't that good. If they were better paintings, Iâ??m sure some morons would somehow use them to explain how he wasnâ??t a monster.

There was that joke about supporting the arts might've meant Hitler became a painter and probably wouldn't have gone all genocidal.

Onto the subject at hand. Free speech isn't dying. We get assholes talking their opinions about foreigners and SJWs all the time who then get offended when people call them out on it (ironically the same thing they complain about). You have the right to an opinion and being able to voice it. Other people also have the right to judge you on your opinion.

As to the guy teaching the dog a Nazi salute trying to be funny. Stupid, idiotic and not thought out yes. Enough to put him in jail. I don't think so. Give him a fine and community service. They didn't put Prince Harry in jail for wearing a Nazi uniform years ago