Enough Is Enough

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm not meaning this to be a hate thread on Roman Reigns. Reigns is universes better than he was and I think a good deal of the hate he gets isn't all that justified, but the super push needs to end. Roman is among the top guys in the company but Vince needs to give up on making him THE singular, undisputed next "face" of WWE. Roman Reigns has been on this seemingly near endless mega push really since the break up of the Shield. What I mean by that is we've all known what Vince has wanted for him and Vince has repeatedly tried to engineer this mega moments for Reigns time and time again. His WrestleMania match against Lesnar didn't work and his match with Lesnar at the GRR was sheer garbage with a botched ending. For WrestleMania, the match was basically a finish fest but what hurt it the most was Vince trying to cast Roman Reigns in the role of an underdog fighting from underneath. Vince should have long since figured out that fans aren't going to embrace Reigns in the way he feels they should, namely as this alpha male superhero/tough guy, and they damn sure aren't going to accept Reigns in the role of an underdog fighting the valiant fight from underneath. They caught lightning in a bottle with Lesnar vs. Reigns three years back but it's not gonna happen again.

The recipe with Reigns isn't working and it's not going to work, so it's time to try something new, in my opinion. Take him in a different direction, turn him heel, turn up the intensity, do away with this swaggering alpha male bullshit or bolster it by making him into a badass who kicks ass. Vince isn't getting the most he could be getting out of Reigns and that's mostly Vince's own fault. Look around at the fans of the modern era, pay attention to who they're into, pay mind to what excites them, etc. and try applying some of it to Roman Reigns.

[jmt225]

Yeah the controversial finish to today's match leaves the possibility open for Roman to challenge Brock AGAIN at Summerslam. They definitely need to move on. Either make Roman THE guy or don't. This whole "chasing the title" thing is not working. Nobody cares.

[smarkmouth]

What irks me most about Roman's presentation is the "Oh, listen to the polarizing reaction he gets." The comparison to such a reaction is the reaction Cena endured for years on end, but Cena's relationship with the audience was unique. His character always encouraged the loudest reaction whether it was for him or against him. The "polarizing reaction" was only a positive for Cena because he was presented as the personification of the "WWE Universe", for better or for worse. That's not Roman. Roman is (apparently) the baddest Big Dog that ever did Big Dog, and isn't (as a character, mind you) invested in how the WWE Universe thinks about him. The boos don't feed him like they do Cena. It's just poor presentation.

Honestly, best version of Roman that I can imagine is the Lesnar push, and that should have started after he beat the Undertaker. He should have been mowing down anyone in front of him between Undertaker and Lesnar. Anyone in Reigns' path that needed to be protected, well, let the Creative team think of Creative ways to protect the roster surrounding Roman! The stop/start "what a triumphant little underbigdog" stuff just doesn't work.

Worst part, none of it's Roman's fault.

[Alex]

Roman Reigns seems to be Lex Luger 2.0. They're trying to replicate a previous talent but it's not working.

The thing about trying to emulate Cena again is that Cena started off with a slow burn with Dr Thuganomics and a US title win. Heck people liked his initial WWE title win off JBL. When he moved to Raw from Smackdown the crowd loved it. It wasn't until he was beating everyone left right and centre that people started getting tired with him and even then Cena seems like such a nice guy in real life that people let it slide. His Royal Rumble 2008 return is seen as one of the best returns period and that's something.

Reigns doesn't have any of that. He didn't have a slow burn push or a change in gimmick. He was still the guy from The Shield that ended up with a massive push. Both Rollins and Ambrose had character changes stemming from the Shield break up.

Also doesn't help that he seems to be a bit of an arrogant dick (see him talking about main eventing Mania 4 times in a row). Someone like CM Punk is a dick but he fully admits that and also had to work for his spot.

For me what to do with Reigns is I would embrace being a dick and not caring. Give him MITB and see how it goes. If he starts getting over organically with the dick persona use MITB (ala RVD) and win. If not have him lose and push him down the card and have him in the midcard as a jobber to the stars

[FunKay]

There's no consistency or character. There's no substance. He's the alpha male to end all alpha males, and then, suddenly he's the little engine who could (or couldn't as the case has become). He walks with a swagger and an arrogance of a bad-ass, and proceeds to complain about guilded schedules and Vince being in Brock's pocket. Why is that his issue if he's such a bad mutha'? Surely he'd come in, say it didn't matter and then try and crush Lesnar. Instead he's cast as this *ahem* "relatable" guy who has to fight from underneath, which totally contradicts the character they seem to want him to be the rest of the time and year.

There's nothing about Roman Reigns that makes me want to cheer him. He's cocky and arrogant, but fails to back it up and then moves the goalposts to say, 'We'll, it wasn't fair because x, y or z'. Why would I cheer for that? This is a fundamental issue that cripples the likability of Reigns and once you combine that with a guy whose matches are largely the same, a redundant signature/finisher spam fest, and you have a toxic disaster.

The narrative now should be Roman trying to figure out why he couldn't beat Brock, and acting on it, evolving as a character. Instead we're likely to be treated to a whole bunch of 'Its not fair, that part time bitch is hiding behind Vince's money' etc... before ultimately Roman finally defeats and slays the dragon and captures the gold to a chorus of thunderous boos and indifference and WWE scratch there heads and go, 'why is this happening? '

The title isn't being held hostage by Lesnar, but by this insufferable never ending cycle of rince and repeat failed booking. Just give Braun the chance to murder Brock and run with the jam belt. It'll be a fresh change of pace and a chance to see someone the fans genuinely have a connection with have the top spot.

[Elky]

Reigns now just comes off as a loser that can't get the job done. If Vince's goal is to make him John Cena's successor, he should have ended Lesnar's reign at WrestleMania.

[DNA 2.0]

Seth Rollins got a Hogan like ovation in Canada and Roman got a heel HBK hate in Canada. I haven't said this enough times already. Summerslam: champion vs champion, Rollins vs Lesnar. Hell I don't care, have Lesnar keep the belt until next year's Wrestlemania, but have Rollins beat him! He's the most over babyface right now, he's on fire and he's what? 32? 33? The entire Attitude Era lasted 4-5 years and that's exactly how much Vince has been trying to get Roman over. It's the definition of insanity! And he refuses to turn him heel!

[smarkmouth]

The entire Attitude Era lasted 4-5 years and that's exactly how much Vince has been trying to get Roman over. It's the definition of insanity! And he refuses to turn him heel!

Wow, when you put it in that perspectice, it is absolute insanity! This is digging heels at historic proportions.

Rollins is a good choice, but because I don't trust fans in large numbers(even in my own city), I wonder how loud his reaction would be if that belt he was wearing was red instead of white.

[DNA 2.0]

Wow, when you put it in that perspectice, it is absolute insanity! This is digging heels at historic proportions.

Rollins is a good choice, but because I don't trust fans in large numbers(even in my own city), I wonder how loud his reaction would be if that belt he was wearing was red instead of white.

Fans will cheer anybody as long as:
he beats up Roman

Which means... Rollins beats Lesnar, then Reigns challenges Rollins out of jealousy, Rollins beats Reigns and voila, Rollins is the guy. He's been on fire ever since that amazing 1+ hour match and if he continues, he may as well dethrone Lesnar at Summerslam, if not WM 35.

[Slyfox696]

First of all, I must deduct points from Jack-Hammer for not following up his thread title with "And it's time for change!". This is a wrestling forum, for Christ's sake! ;)

As to the topic, however, I disagree Reigns is not over. Reigns gets a massive reaction, his matches have a big fight feel (even on the undercard) and people care about the outcome of his matches. If Austin can be a mega babyface by playing a heel, I don't see why Reigns can't be a mega heel by playing a babyface. The biggest question is "Does Reign make money" and it seems fairly apparently the answer is "yes".

There's no consistency or character. There's no substance. He's the alpha male to end all alpha males, and then, suddenly he's the little engine who could (or couldn't as the case has become). He walks with a swagger and an arrogance of a bad-ass, and proceeds to complain about guilded schedules and Vince being in Brock's pocket. Why is that his issue if he's such a bad mutha'? Surely he'd come in, say it didn't matter and then try and crush Lesnar. Instead he's cast as this *ahem* "relatable" guy who has to fight from underneath, which totally contradicts the character they seem to want him to be the rest of the time and year.

There's nothing about Roman Reigns that makes me want to cheer him. He's cocky and arrogant, but fails to back it up and then moves the goalposts to say, 'We'll, it wasn't fair because x, y or z'. Why would I cheer for that? This is a fundamental issue that cripples the likability of Reigns and once you combine that with a guy whose matches are largely the same, a redundant signature/finisher spam fest, and you have a toxic disaster.The problem you're outlining here isn't really with his writing, but rather with his microphone ability. That's the problem Reigns has, his mic work is just not up to standards for the character. Why the WWE hasn't paired him with a manager (Paul Heyman would be perfect for him, for so many reasons) is something I don't understand.

[Jack-Hammer]

First of all, I must deduct points from Jack-Hammer for not following up his thread title with "And it's time for change!". This is a wrestling forum, for Christ's sake! ;)

I was TRYING not to be such a cliché.:cool:

[DNA 2.0]

You know this would have a been a great way to make Roman a little bit more humble and more compelling as a babyface. He gets viciously beaten by Lesnar at Mania, then spears him through the cage but still can't get the job done. Have Joe also beat him by cheating and then have him choke in the Clutch. Have Ambrose turn on him and not Rollins when Ambrose returns. Present him as a more humble human being. Add in there the hate Roman gets and you can run a vulnerability angle for Roman.

But nooo, all that Roman does is come out, make excuses, blame others, insult fans, insult critics and generally he views himself as a god and he's just a big asshole. You think Roman getting booed isn't Roman's fault? Think again. There's a wikipedia page that covers Roman's acceptance and his connection to the fans, with various links and instances of him insulting fans and critics and thinking that he's the best, cause he actually thinks that.

The guy will never get over as a face. Every time he opens his mouth he turns into a natural heel. The only reason he was cheered in the Shield was because he didn't speak. The guy's a prick. Even if he turns heel, he'll become the most hated man in the industry.

[DNA 2.0]

I recently watched the two most famous Andre-Hogan skits, the one where Andre tears Hogan's shirt and the contract signing. Two skits were enough to sell me on the match. That's how much charisma Hogan and Andre had. In two skits they managed to fit in everything you need to know for Andre the Giant vs Hulk Hogan. Hogan was acting like a champ, you could feel his pain when Andre paired himself with Heenan and you could feel Hogan's anger in the contract signing. And you just hated Andre for sitting there like a psychopath, not even blinking an eye, no showing any kind of remorse.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for them to produce such acting nowadays. The last angle I remember that hooked me emotionally was Cass turning on Enzo and of course any angle that involves Shane McMahon selling.

Why can't Roman be like that? He's just a Samoan Randy Orton.

[Elky]

I recently watched the two most famous Andre-Hogan skits, the one where Andre tears Hogan's shirt and the contract signing. Two skits were enough to sell me on the match. That's how much charisma Hogan and Andre had. In two skits they managed to fit in everything you need to know for Andre the Giant vs Hulk Hogan. Hogan was acting like a champ, you could feel his pain when Andre paired himself with Heenan and you could feel Hogan's anger in the contract signing. And you just hated Andre for sitting there like a psychopath, not even blinking an eye, no showing any kind of remorse.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for them to produce such acting nowadays. The last angle I remember that hooked me emotionally was Cass turning on Enzo and of course any angle that involves Shane McMahon selling.

Why can't Roman be like that? He's just a Samoan Randy Orton.

To be fair, Andre's heel turn was so effective because up to that point, most fans grew up with him as the lovable giant during the kayfaybe era.

[Elky]

How to salvage Reigns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nanNh7SwBrU

[EnviousDominous]

The WWE is trying desperately to create a type of continuity where it makes sense for Roman to only lose a match by fluke or by Brock Lesnar, and the fans aren't feeling very inspired by the effort.

Prowrestling requires a person to play a character, even if you're technically playing yourself. It's entertainment, not an athletic competition. All the fancy shit Roman does in the ring is neat, but it's lost on me in that there's nothing that's the slightest bit interesting about the Roman Reigns character. At this point his heat has worn off and we're just fucking bored of him.

Roman's shtick seems to be that he's a hard worker, which is fine. I don't think that it's the best way to connect with the 18-25 age group. Most fans are so impressionable that if it's popular to boo Roman, the fans are going to boo. If the WWE makes him outwait his welcome as a hated face then the fans probably won't give a shit if he goes heel. They'll be more willing to leave early and beat the traffic home than they will be willing to watch Roman Reigns vs Anybody.

[Jack-Hammer]

According to Uncle Dave, Vince's latest scheme to get fans to cheer Roman Reigns is to recreate the storyline they did with Daniel Bryan years back in which they favor Brock Lesnar over Reigns and screw him over as a means of explaining why he isn't champion.

It's little wonder why Vince McMahon and Donald Trump get along so well as they have such similar personalities in some respects. For instance, instead of just admitting that he's wrong and that what he's doing isn't working, Vince will stubbornly just double down on a plan if he likes it and stick with it if it's something that he truly and desperately wants to happen. It doesn't matter if Stephanie, Barrios, Triple H advises against it or flat out says that it won't work, Vince often sticks with it if it's something that he thinks should come to pass or if he enjoys it.

WWE creative gets the blame for a lot of stuff but the creative team is often hamstrung by Vince's wants. First and foremost, the job of WWE creative is to make Vince McMahon happy despite the vomid inducing claims made by both Stephanie and Vince that WWE truly listens to the fans and that everything they do is all about the fans.