Billboard Vandalized to Say "Kill the NRA". NRA Panics, Conservatives Sound Stupid

[klunderbunker]

http://www.lex18.com/story/37547362/nra-points-to-vandalized-louisville-billboard-to-rally-supporters

So in Louisville, Kentucky, a billboard has been vandalized and now says KILL THE NRA with the logo of an anti-Trump group called Resist 45. Now anyone with a brain could understand what is meant here. Therefore, we'll hit the Twitter to show just how dumb some people can be. These are some Tweets on the subject from various people:

https://twitter.com/KayaJones/status/966023028722282496

https://twitter.com/mike_Zollo/status/966019016325246977

https://twitter.com/ARmastrangelo/status/966041527150628869

https://twitter.com/GaryDeSantis/status/965952928199663616

The NRA, on its Facebook page, has called its members to rally, saying "they're coming for us".

In other words, make sure to clutch your guns, because someone being upset by a mass murder means THEY'RE COMING FOR US!!! SAVE THE GUNS!!!

[HBK-aholic]

...They do know the NRA is not a person, right?

No need to rally, though. Thoughts and prayers to those affected. That's enough, right?

[Spidercanrana]

You know, for a group that prides itself on being tough the NRA sure as hell lets a few words get to them.

[klunderbunker]

Nope. See, when it's about guns (the real potential victims in these massacres), we need money, people and laws to make this nightmare go away. SAVE THE GUNS FROM THIS HORRIBLE VIOLENCE!!!

['Ravishing' Ned Flanders]

Every time i think i've seen this country at it's stupidest something happens that proves me wrong.

I don't even know what to say except i can't believe a group of grown adults are letting words get to them this bad. I shouldn't be surprised at it any nore but yet again here I am shaking my head not knowing what to say

[Fallout]

I don't know much about the Resist 45 group, but from what I do know, the symbol of the group is apparently the Mockingjay from The Hunger Games, used to represent the Resistance faction. If that's the case, then that's cretinous beyond words. The sensationalism about Trump is reaching a point where it somehow makes Trump look more nuanced than a hefty chunk of his critics. You might think Trump is a bad president, and I wouldn't disagree. But he's not a Saturday morning cartoon villain, nor is he institutionalising martial law. In fact, if the Democrats don't run a good candidate in 2020 (Cory Booker and Kamala Harris spring to mind as likely and terrible candidates), and provided Trump doesn't self-destruct (which very well could happen), I could see this sensationalism leading to re-election.

The NRA is full of nuts, but everyone knows that. It's the other side of the coin that often isn't addressed, and it's often not addressed well by the excuse called alternative media.

[HBK-aholic]

I don't know much about the Resist 45 group, but from what I do know, the symbol of the group is apparently the Mockingjay from The Hunger Games, used to represent the Resistance faction. If that's the case, then that's cretinous beyond words.

Resist 45 is not a 'Mockingjay' symbol - I literally had to google where you got that from. It came up with 1 article, with the source being 1 Facebook user, who stated that's what they thought it looked like. It doesn't, and it has nothing to do with the movement.



The sensationalism about Trump is reaching a point where it somehow makes Trump look more nuanced than a hefty chunk of his critics


Only to those who are also racist misogynists :shrug:


But he's not a Saturday morning cartoon villain, nor is he institutionalising martial law.

He literally admitted sexual assault and then mocked a disabled reporter. I don't care what side of any political spectrum you are on, that is worse than being a 'Saturday morning cartoon villian' and I won't let people brush it under the carpet. I hate Trump, truly, despise him. Because of his actions.


I could see this sensationalism leading to re-election.

If by 'sensationalism' you mean everything HE is doing. My opinions on Donald Trump are not due to the media, or what others say. Everything I, and the 'resistance' hate Donald Trump for, HE himself has said or done. And if he wins re-election, it's because people are stupid AF, not because we are calling Trump out on his shit.

[Fallout]

Resist 45 is not a 'Mockingjay' symbol - I literally had to google where you got that from. It came up with 1 article, with the source being 1 Facebook user, who stated that's what they thought it looked like. It doesn't, and it has nothing to do with the movement.

I've never watched or read the Hunger Games, so I took what the Courier Journal said at face value, rather than interpreting as metaphorical. Regardless, the term "resist" in the political context implies an extreme action, akin to the civil disobedience in India or the ANC's actions in apartheid South Africa. Suffice to say, 2018 America is not 1920's India or 1960's South Africa, nowhere close. Trump might be a bad president, but he's far from the levels of Buchanan, Andrew Johnson or Pierce, or at least, not without the frame of reference of his legacy. I want to put him around the same level as Ford currently, because I think Trump's biggest crime in office is that he's not actually done all that much in the grand scheme of things, especially considering his populist bravado. Even you have to admit there is a huge overreaction to what Trump does from liberals.



Only to those who are also racist misogynists :shrug:

The "racist misogynists" (in quotations because that's a huge tangent that I don't want to derail this thread with) that you mention will defend Trump no matter what. They won't look objectively at any criticism levelled towards Trump, even the relevant and intelligent criticism. To their ying, there are the people who cannot look objectively at any praise given to Trump, and consider him to be worse than Hitler, the yang. Both are idiots and people are actually fucking dying because people can't look at politics anymore without kneejerking. Not just in the US, but around the western world.




He literally admitted sexual assault and then mocked a disabled reporter. I don't care what side of any political spectrum you are on, that is worse than being a 'Saturday morning cartoon villian' and I won't let people brush it under the carpet. I hate Trump, truly, despise him. Because of his actions.

Were Pussygate and the Kovaleski thing bad? Yes, very much so (although Pussygate was not sexual assault), but in the grand scheme of things, those two incidents meant very little ultimately. What do these have to do with Trump's politics or indeed, politics in general? By making the conversation about this kind of thing, you play into Trump's sensationalist ball-game. And this is what I hate about Trump the most personally: His watering down of the discourse into Jerry Springer tier nonsense. He's set a precedent for this entire thing to become the acceptable norm in politics, and the pro and anti-Trump side are making things awful for the people who actually want to have a debate. Trump does this, CNN did that, it's one big shitshow that would make leaders of times old roll in their graves. The difference is, Trump is using it as a strategy. The people reacting to him aren't.

I made a post about this on Wrestlezone a while back, but if you want Trump gone, be surgical. Attack him on his politics, his weakest point, because they're empty words, just look at the wall for example. There's a reason why Trump won, and it's not because people are idiots, misogynist or racist. It's because liberals over-extended their hand, and started judging people as idiots, misogynist or racist in guilty until proven innocent show trials.

[JGlass]

I don't know much about the Resist 45 group, but from what I do know, the symbol of the group is apparently the Mockingjay from The Hunger Games, used to represent the Resistance faction. If that's the case, then that's cretinous beyond words. The sensationalism about Trump is reaching a point where it somehow makes Trump look more nuanced than a hefty chunk of his critics. You might think Trump is a bad president, and I wouldn't disagree. But he's not a Saturday morning cartoon villain, nor is he institutionalising martial law. In fact, if the Democrats don't run a good candidate in 2020 (Cory Booker and Kamala Harris spring to mind as likely and terrible candidates), and provided Trump doesn't self-destruct (which very well could happen), I could see this sensationalism leading to re-election.

The NRA is full of nuts, but everyone knows that. It's the other side of the coin that often isn't addressed, and it's often not addressed well by the excuse called alternative media.

Does your ass ever get tired from all the talking it does for you? Seriously, you're not even from the United States and you seem to think you have a valuable opinion about the state of affairs here. I'm not saying that it's impossible to be non-American and have valuable insight regarding US politics, but you don't have it. Your opinion is misinformed and shit.

Donald Trump is not coming off as more nuanced than his critics. His approval rating has been more negative than positive for over a year now, and the only reason it's not as much in the shitter as it used to be is because he's been out of the public eye for the last couple of weeks. That's right, the goddamn PRESIDENT OF THE US is doing everything he can to hide from the public. DJT's only public presence is his Twitter account, which was mocked this past week around the world.

And what other side of the coin are you talking about? Gun control advocates? There's no left-wing equivalent to the NRA in America, and if someone has led you to believe that then you are horribly mistaken.

Children we just gunned down senselessly and you come in here talking about about shit you don't know anything about. Stay in your lane, dumb fuck.

[Yaz]

Guns are people too. #GunLivesMatter

[Fallout]

Does your ass ever get tired from all the talking it does for you? Seriously, you're not even from the United States and you seem to think you have a valuable opinion about the state of affairs here. I'm not saying that it's impossible to be non-American and have valuable insight regarding US politics, but you don't have it. Your opinion is misinformed and shit.

Donald Trump is not coming off as more nuanced than his critics. His approval rating has been more negative than positive for over a year now, and the only reason it's not as much in the shitter as it used to be is because he's been out of the public eye for the last couple of weeks. That's right, the goddamn PRESIDENT OF THE US is doing everything he can to hide from the public. DJT's only public presence is his Twitter account, which was mocked this past week around the world.

And what other side of the coin are you talking about? Gun control advocates? There's no left-wing equivalent to the NRA in America, and if someone has led you to believe that then you are horribly mistaken.

Children we just gunned down senselessly and you come in here talking about about shit you don't know anything about. Stay in your lane, dumb fuck.


This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You're a good guy J, but you're biased about this kind of stuff. I hate being a dick to people I like in the fear that what I'll say will be taken the wrong way, but I think I can at least offer you my honest perspective.

Firstly, we have a thread detailing all of the dumb stuff Trump does on a daily basis. We have a mainstream media that loves to sensationalise Trump because it serves their bottom line: to get clicks and mainstream approval. We've got people (not on this forum thankfully) making comparisons to fictional villains and fascist dictators. The outrage over Trump is quite simply, a maelstrom of emotions, and that's the key word: emotion. Many of Trump's critics aren't looking at this from a place of pragmatism, they're kneejerking with their personal opinions without thinking about why Trump does what he does. There's a reason why there's such an aversion to thing such as social justice, why the left-wing is losing popularity, and why Trump got elected in the first place, all of which are objectively true, and I'll be interested in hearing your personal opinions on them.

The other side of the coin I was mostly referring to in my OP were social justice warriors. Now, this is a term misused by Trump supporters (which I am not FYI), so I'll explain what I mean by this: A social justice warrior is a social justice advocate who cannot see any humanity in anyone who may disagree with their perceptions, they are the self-righteous bigots they accuse others of being. To be clear, I'm not accusing you or anyone else here of being one, I'm just outlining that people like this exist.

And for the record, I support gun control. I've even had debates with right-wing libertarian friends with mine from the US, and I strongly support the laws we have in Britain, even though I acknowledge Britain and the US have very different gun cultures. In fact, building new schools next to police stations to deter potential school shooters, and placing a restriction on maximum magazine size is a great place to start in my opinion.

[Yaz]

If I am being completely honest, I think the harm that can be done by the radical right is much much worse than the potential harm the radical left could do. I mean ask yourself, what is worse? Admitting to sexual assault or wanting people to be more politically correct?

But I just caused the WZ Apocalypse by calling someone fucking retarded so what do I know?

[HBK-aholic]

How privileged of a human do you have to be to say we shouldn't talk about the despicable shit Trump does, and that sexual assault (which kissing and grabbing someones vagina without consent absolutely is, btw) and mocking the disabled is a 'little thing'?

Absolutely boggles my mind. I mean, I'm totally glad you aren't in a position that you have to worry about those things, but as a female immigrant Trumps policies and actions affect me. And yet I'm aware I'm one of the lucky ones. So yes, I will talk about it. Yes, I will make the conversation about how awful that is. Yes, I will #Resist.


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak outâ??
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak outâ??
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outâ??
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for meâ??and there was no one left to speak for me.

[JGlass]

The radical left has almost no presence in the US, not like the radical right does, and it's exactly because they have Trump as President normalizing what they do. There's never been a president that said there are fine people that are neo-Nazis before. We've never had a president that bragged about sexually assaulting women, and we've never had a president (at least to my knowledge) that has called directly for violence against the media. You're right that his detractors react to him emotionally, but that's because his supporters also react to him emotionally. Very few Trump supporters are behind him because of his politics, they're behind him because of what he represents: a white guy looking out for white guys. And it's very easy for you, as a white man, to say that we should avoid an emotional reaction because you have very little to lose from the power swinging back to the far right, but you know who does have a lot to lose? Women. People of color. Non-heterosexual, non-cis people. People with disabilities. People that aren't Christian. A lot of fucking people. It's important to express outrage at the ideas this president represents so we can avoid them from taking hold. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Americans are willing to accept just about anything as the new normal: we accept that massacres happen every other week, we accept that our medical system is garbage, and we accept that we have a clown for president.

And I know what a social justice warrior is, you condescending fuck. What I don't understand is how you can compare social justice warriors to the NRA. One is a group of individuals that aggressively, perhaps overaggressively, pursue social equality for marginalized groups for no personal gain other than emotional gratification. The other is a massive organization that pulls in nearly half a billion dollars a year in revenue and lobbies congress to do NOTHING when guns continue to be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans every year, actively creates fear-based propaganda against their critics, and values the right to own a gun over the right for children to live in a safe society.

This is why I'm not going to continue arguing with you: you refuse to admit that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I don't dislike you because we have a difference of opinion, I invite people with different opinion to talk to me, but they better be informed. You are not informed, you have no idea what you're talking about but pretend that you do, and when it becomes readily apparent to everyone except you that you have no idea you double down and attempt to explain yourself in a condescending manner only to further reveal that, say it with me now, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Just to illustrate this point, let me pick apart your, "Build new schools by police stations," idea.

1) What about the hundreds of thousands of schools that already exist that aren't by police stations?
2) What about schools in cities where real estate is expensive and you can't always put a building exactly where you want it?
3) Is next to a police station really the best place to put a school, where sirens will blare every time someone calls 911, where criminals are brought for questioning and detention?
4) How are they supposed to fit an elementary school, a middle school, and a high school next to one police station?
5) Why would we build schools next to police stations when we could just ban automatic weapons and save millions of tax payer dollars?



In summation: your ideas are stupid, I don't like you, and you don't know what you're talking about. Please stick to discussing things you do know about, which again, clearly does not include this.

[Fallout]

If I am being completely honest, I think the harm that can be done by the radical right is much much worse than the potential harm the radical left could do. I mean ask yourself, what is worse? Admitting to sexual assault or wanting people to be more politically correct?

But I just caused the WZ Apocalypse by calling someone fucking retarded so what do I know?

That's a fair assessment. Right-wing extremists are more likely to shoot up a place (look at Andrers Breivik, Dylann Roof and Thomas Mair), but the left-wing extremists are more than capable of violence as well, such as burning six police officers in France, one to the extent he received third-degree burns. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/may-day-violence-france-six-police-injured-armed-group-hijack-paris-march) Left-wing extremists have also attempted to use institutionalised power against their political opponents, ranging from actual neo-Nazis and the alt-right, to centrists and even fellow left-wingers. Say what you will about right-wing extremists, but outside of edgelords on 4chan, everyone hates them and is right to have a negative perception of them. The same cannot be said for extremists on the left.


How privileged of a human do you have to be to say we shouldn't talk about the despicable shit Trump does, and that sexual assault (which kissing and grabbing someones vagina without consent absolutely is, btw) and mocking the disabled is a 'little thing'?

Absolutely boggles my mind. I mean, I'm totally glad you aren't in a position that you have to worry about those things, but as a female immigrant Trumps policies and actions affect me. And yet I'm aware I'm one of the lucky ones. So yes, I will talk about it. Yes, I will make the conversation about how awful that is. Yes, I will #Resist.

I'm speaking in terms of presentation, optics and PR here.

Trump's entire PR campaign was to be as bombastic as possible. You've probably heard the phrase "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience". (I'm leaving myself open to a WITTY remark here, but whatever) Trump's entire strategy revolves around invoking that. His strategy was to dumb down the conversation to a point where he felt comfortable orating; he controlled the tempo of the US election and he controls the current political zeitgeist right now. If you sensationalise like CNN seems content on doing (to the point they were reporting and dedicating resources to a fucking truck blocking their view whilst Trump was golfing), you only make yourself look bad, and CNN went from perhaps my go-to American news source to an embarrassment on the same level of Fox News under Obama, and that's not even factoring in the CNN Blackmail debacle. Trump has very little to lose if he sensationalises everything; people know what they're going to get, and his supporters will stand by him no matter what. The zeitgeist however, is on his side, especially given the rise of criticism of social justice and a general right-wing resurgence across the western world. The right-wing has momentum, and the left needs to gain its credibility back. It will not get it back by doing exactly what Trump does in return. It will get it back through intelligent conversation and challenging Trump on the issues he doesn't fully grasp. And it will get it back, rather than just focusing on trashing the other side, by actually offering a clear, understandable and cogent message. Say what you will about Trump, but he offered people something new. To me, the line that killed Hillary Clinton's election bid dead in the water was "America is already great, because America is good" because it was essentially a giant middle finger to anyone who wasn't satisfied with their living environment (a lot of people, considering humanity's natural state is disatisfaction).

[Yaz]

To be frank, if someone sees dead children and their first thought is to run to social media and shout "but muh rights, muh guns" then yeah, I think I am going to question if they have a shred of humanity in them.

[Fallout]

To be frank, if someone sees dead children and their first thought is to run to social media and shout "but muh rights, muh guns" then yeah, I think I am going to question if they have a shred of humanity in them.

Those people aren't just completely retarded, they're pretty much sociopaths. People like Stefan Molyneux, Paul Joseph Watson, Steven Crowder and that group are cunts who get pleasure from trying to hurt their political opponents emotionally.

[A11]

The radical left has almost no presence in the US, not like the radical right does,

I refuse to believe this. The radical left has been the reason that Trump has risen to the presidency and why brexit won. I completely agree that trump is terrible but the radical left has been arrogant in the belief that they are morally right (they probably are right) but have not approached it the right way. People do not want to be told that they are wrong and have to change. And this is probably complete white privilege but if I want to make a joke among mates that is racist, homophobic or sexist I'm going to do it. But here's the thing I'm not going to do it in public or if someone that would be offended by the joke is around I wouldnt do it. But at the same time I'm also not going to treat someone differently because of their skin colour, beliefs or gender. Meanwhile the left continues to babble on starting movements that achieve nothing. E.g wearing black at the emmys, what did that achieve exactly?

[HBK-aholic]

E.g wearing black at the emmys, what did that achieve exactly?

Assuming you mean the Golden globes - the *point* was to raise awareness for #MeToo and #TimesUp, to show solidarity with those who have stood up to rampant sexual assault and harassment, and to protest gender inequality. It ACHIEVED exactly what it was supposed to - to get people talking about these issues that have been affecting (mostly) women for years.

I don't see what the problem is.

[A11]

Assuming you mean the Golden globes - the *point* was to raise awareness for #MeToo and #TimesUp, to show solidarity with those who have stood up to rampant sexual assault and harassment, and to protest gender inequality. It ACHIEVED exactly what it was supposed to - to get people talking about these issues that have been affecting (mostly) women for years.

I don't see what the problem is.

Fuck yeah awareness! We werent already aware of it. It's only dominated the news for the last month and been a running joke in hollywood forever. The problem is that this is what the left does, it shoves its message down your throat without actually changing anything. In melbourne we're getting pedestrian lights in a female silhouette because thats going to break down all the issues that females face. It doesnt achieve anything significant but yet all these activists don't give a shit because they've done something. Thats all anyone wants to do these days is make it look like they are doing shit

[HBK-aholic]

Fuck yeah awareness! We werent already aware of it. It's only dominated the news for the last month and been a running joke in hollywood forever. The problem is that this is what the left does, it shoves its message down your throat without actually changing anything. In melbourne we're getting pedestrian lights in a female silhouette because thats going to break down all the issues that females face. It doesnt achieve anything significant but yet all these activists don't give a shit because they've done something. Thats all anyone wants to do these days is make it look like they are doing shit

You realise you're proving my point, right? It's been all over the news BECAUSE OF THE MOVEMENT. The movement YOU say does nothing. And yet, what, now YOU'RE sick of hearing about it, they should stop? Fuck out of here with that bullshit.

[Yaz]

I like when Becca gets mad.

[Fillet Club]

Fuck yeah awareness! We werent already aware of it. It's only dominated the news for the last month and been a running joke in hollywood forever. The problem is that this is what the left does, it shoves its message down your throat without actually changing anything. In melbourne we're getting pedestrian lights in a female silhouette because thats going to break down all the issues that females face. It doesnt achieve anything significant but yet all these activists don't give a shit because they've done something. Thats all anyone wants to do these days is make it look like they are doing shit

I know right? Fucking lefties, there's no point in me getting in to the film industry if I can't sexually assault people.

[Fallout]

I know right? Fucking lefties, there's no point in me getting in to the film industry if I can't sexually assault people.

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/files/2014/01/StrawMan2.jpg

[Fillet Club]

Good ol' Straw man, a rebuttal often abused by pseudo intellectuals.

Alas the days of making an off-handed and sarcastic comment are long gone.

[Fallout]

Good ol' Straw man, a rebuttal often abused by pseudo intellectuals.

Alas the days of making an off-handed and sarcastic comment are long gone.

"Hah! I called you a pseudo-intellectual. That'll cover for my complete misrepresentation of someone's argument and character."

"It won't? Well, it was only a meme, guys, stop taking it so seriously."

[A11]

You realise you're proving my point, right? It's been all over the news BECAUSE OF THE MOVEMENT. The movement YOU say does nothing. And yet, what, now YOU'RE sick of hearing about it, they should stop? Fuck out of here with that bullshit.

It was done, everyone was aware of it already. Everyone agreed it was so terrible and that it needed to change. Wearing black after the fact is pointless

[Dave]

I try to stay away from Trump talk, simply because he's a total moron and every decision he makes seems like he shook a magic 8-ball. But the real problem isn't Trump, it's the people who believe in him. The people, like in the OP, that believe he is standing up for their rights as Americans. He isn't doing shit for the little guy on the street. All of these people trying so hard to defend their 'rights' just make me incurable angry.

[JGlass]

It was done, everyone was aware of it already. Everyone agreed it was so terrible and that it needed to change. Wearing black after the fact is pointless

I have a few responses to this, and they're all at least a little sarcastic.

1) Who made you the spokesperson for everyone? Does it pay? Are they hiring?
2) That must be why there haven't been any new assault accusations after the Golden Globes. That must be why there haven't been people who have come forward and SPECIFICALLY CITED the bravery of the black out at the Globes as one of their inspirations.
3) Yes, everyone has agreed that the culture in Hollywood has been bad. There certainly haven't been any pockets of people who have voiced opposition to the Me Too movement. It's not like the President of the United States came out in defense of the accused while lending no support to the accusers thus far.

[Fallout]

I try to stay away from Trump talk, simply because he's a total moron and every decision he makes seems like he shook a magic 8-ball. But the real problem isn't Trump, it's the people who believe in him. The people, like in the OP, that believe he is standing up for their rights as Americans. He isn't doing shit for the little guy on the street. All of these people trying so hard to defend their 'rights' just make me incurable angry.

I think it's important to note that Trump plays the moron; he isn't actually the moron he presents himself to be. To me, that's far worse in my mind: He's willing to dumb down the rhetoric of political conversation so that he can generate conversation about himself and other individuals, instead of actually touching on the issues.

It is entirely unrealistic to go to each individual person engaging in the shit-flinging fest between pro and anti-Trump and getting them to stop. Rather, you need to take a top down approach by making pragmatic attacks on Trump and not rising to bait from the idiotic portion of Trump's audience. You also need to criticise the celebrities (your Lily Allen's, Meryl Streep's, Wil Wheaton's) and university professors who both have a heavy-liberal bias (this is objectively true) and have zero idea about what they're talking about either because of lack of information or bias affecting their perception of reality. This is not a partisan issue between conservatives and liberals, and should be treated accordingly; so singling out Trump and conservatives as the only people who muddy the discourse is less than half the problem in my view, and it could be argued might actually make things worse in many ways.

[BaconBits]

The gun control people are calling for isn’t going to do shit. That ship sailed a long, long time ago. The guns are already out there, and you have better chance of seeing God in the flesh than you do getting anybody to give up the guns they have. The black market is already rife with high powered weapons, and making it impossible to acquire what you want legally will only drive people to that black market. A huge percentage of murders each year already come from illegally acquired weapons.

Everybody has these easy solutions on how to fix the gun problem, but the fact is, there are no way solutions. Yes we absolutely have to do something to help prevent gun violence, I’m not going to dispute that, but there multiple issues that have to get worked out before we’ll get anywhere near curbing the murder rate. Those issues can only be worked out with a rational discourse from all the parties involved. We haven’t anything resembling a rational discourse in the US in a couple decades. It gets even more complicated when you realize the NRA is in the pockets of people on all sides of the debate.

[HBK-aholic]

The gun control people are calling for isnâ??t going to do shit. That ship sailed a long, long time ago. The guns are already out there, and you have better chance of seeing God in the flesh than you do getting anybody to give up the guns they have. The black market is already rife with high powered weapons, and making it impossible to acquire what you want legally will only drive people to that black market. A huge percentage of murders each year already come from illegally acquired weapons.

Everybody has these easy solutions on how to fix the gun problem, but the fact is, there are no way solutions. Yes we absolutely have to do something to help prevent gun violence, Iâ??m not going to dispute that, but there multiple issues that have to get worked out before weâ??ll get anywhere near curbing the murder rate. Those issues can only be worked out with a rational discourse from all the parties involved. We havenâ??t anything resembling a rational discourse in the US in a couple decades. It gets even more complicated when you realize the NRA is in the pockets of people on all sides of the debate.

I agree with you, there's no easy fix here. With regards to the black market though, that's not something that's available to just anyone. And if you make it harder, or even impossible, to get some of these weapons legally the availability and therefore price of them on the black market sky rockets. That's likely to make them inaccessible for several people who have committed mass shootings, and especially those school shootings done by teenagers.

[Fallout]

The gun control people are calling for isn’t going to do shit. That ship sailed a long, long time ago. The guns are already out there, and you have better chance of seeing God in the flesh than you do getting anybody to give up the guns they have. The black market is already rife with high powered weapons, and making it impossible to acquire what you want legally will only drive people to that black market. A huge percentage of murders each year already come from illegally acquired weapons.

Everybody has these easy solutions on how to fix the gun problem, but the fact is, there are no way solutions. Yes we absolutely have to do something to help prevent gun violence, I’m not going to dispute that, but there multiple issues that have to get worked out before we’ll get anywhere near curbing the murder rate. Those issues can only be worked out with a rational discourse from all the parties involved. We haven’t anything resembling a rational discourse in the US in a couple decades. It gets even more complicated when you realize the NRA is in the pockets of people on all sides of the debate.

Good post, but on the topic of illegally acquired weapons, the deaths from those are primarily from gangland violence in things such as territory wars and drug deals gone wrong. Not that they're not deaths and not unfortunate, but I don't think it's fair to draw a equivalence between that and more cold-blooded murders, which can be done with any gun realistically.

Honestly, I think magazine sizes need to go down. Nobody needs a 100 round drum, or even 20 rounds in a clip unless you're planning on killing a group of people or you're in the military. 2nd Amendment advocates will go "But what about the need to uprise against a despotic government?". Ignoring the fact that this is never, ever going to happen because it would destroy America's status as a superpower and would be against everyone's best interest, the only way citizens are going to win that war is with a large percentage of defection from the military. The contribution from citizens would be negligible solely based on how far US military technology has come.

[BaconBits]

Good post, but on the topic of illegally acquired weapons, the deaths from those are primarily from gangland violence in things such as territory wars and drug deals gone wrong. Not that they're not deaths and not unfortunate, but I don't think it's fair to draw a equivalence between that and more cold-blooded murders, which can be done with any gun realistically.

Honestly, I think magazine sizes need to go down. Nobody needs a 100 round drum, or even 20 rounds in a clip unless you're planning on killing a group of people or you're in the military. 2nd Amendment advocates will go "But what about the need to uprise against a despotic government?". Ignoring the fact that this is never, ever going to happen because it would destroy America's status as a superpower and would be against everyone's best interest, the only way citizens are going to win that war is with a large percentage of defection from the military. The contribution from citizens would be negligible solely based on how far US military technology has come.


Why canâ??t you draw equivalence between gangland murders and mass murders, when the largest percentage of what is classified as mass murder is gangland violence? Not to mention that the overwhelming majority of the general murder rate including singular shootings is gangland violence.

The only time the issue is ever brought up when something like a school shooting, or the gay nightclub shooting or something of that ilk. Why doesnâ??t anybody bring this up when dozens of young black dudes in the inner city are dying each week?

The country has to be honest with itself and realize the issue has less to do with guns and more to do with why are people so goddamned disenfranchised before itâ??ll ever accomplish anything even close to a solution.

[Fallout]

Why canâ??t you draw equivalence between gangland murders and mass murders, when the largest percentage of what is classified as mass murder is gangland violence? Not to mention that the overwhelming majority of the general murder rate including singular shootings is gangland violence.

The only time the issue is ever brought up when something like a school shooting, or the gay nightclub shooting or something of that ilk. Why doesnâ??t anybody bring this up when dozens of young black dudes in the inner city are dying each week?

The country has to be honest with itself and realize the issue has less to do with guns and more to do with why are people so goddamned disenfranchised before itâ??ll ever accomplish anything even close to a solution.

The problem with gangland violence is that it's more to do with other factors than anything else. As you said, people go to the black market to get guns, which is something that requires preventative measures considering these specific weapons are already illegal, and these are the weapons commonly used in gangland violence and territory warfare. I think the issue is more cultural and social than necessarily material in that case.

However, a school shooting or a nightclub getting shot up is another beast. I'm not saying because people participate in gang culture that they deserve to die because that would be unbelievably dickish, but there is a sense of consent to the danger around that culture. A school or a nightclub does not in any particular way indicate violence, and gangs mostly stick to fighting amongst themselves rather than going after random groups of civilians. While single-target murders are going to be extremely hard to avoid, nobody should legally have the opportunity to have an easy time shooting up a group of people.

[Bagpipes]

I'll preface with this, not that it really should matter: I'm a gun owner and a hunter.

Laws or regulations on distributors or consumers aren't going to solve the assault style weapon issue. A universal law stating that gun makers may only sell assault style rifles and/or high capacity magazines to non-civilian military buyers is the only way to eliminate the problem.

I'm not smart enough to know anything about universal or international law making, but taking the assault weapons away from the places that average Joe's go to purchase them seems like the only logical solution, if something like that is even possible.

There's no reason Billy Big Balls that lives two doors down needs an AR-15 to take to the gun range and make pumpkins explode. If you're that bad of a shot that you need 50 rounds to hit your target, you probably ought to take up a new hobby anyway.