I'm looking forward to seeing Brock dance with Heath Slater and Jinder in the weeks leading to this match.
I'm looking forward to seeing Brock dance with Heath Slater and Jinder in the weeks leading to this match.
I think you speak for most smarks, not general fans. The crowd reaction at the Rumble was awesome. Brock destroyed nearly half the match to make Drew eliminating him a big deal. It worked. Don't blame WWE because you care more about the backstage inner workings of creative than you do watching the actual story unfold. I think, myself included sometimes, we ruin the actual show for ourselves by "knowing" what's going on backstage.Originally Posted by Fallout
Also, I have no idea what a "clean elimination" is. It's a battle royal, anything goes. This is another creation by fans overthinking every single thing they see.
This match should be great. Drew's first run was awful. He was the least entertaining guy on the planet. He came back an entirely different person. Love everything he does. I'm also a huge fan of Lesnar. I could watch him smash people all day. Why? Because he really can do it. He is one of the better workers to ever do it. Should be a classic. Not to the fans who love stunts without story, but to general fans.
The reason people reacted so positively to that elimination is because Brock was finally out of the picture in the match. I'm not going to argue that it didn't made Drew look amazing, because it absolutely did, but it came at the expense of half of the other entrants. I wasn't one of those people who hated on Reigns pre-leukaemia scare because he at least attempted to have matches that made his opponents look good. And this isn't Kane and the hardcore division in 2001, these are people like Kofi Kingston and Braun Strowman being made to look like saps.
If you want Lesnar's style of work, there's no shortage of MMA matches available for that. I just expect more from the top of the card, particularly someone who barely qualifies as wrestling part-time.
Last edited by Fallout; 02-03-2020 at 01:31 AM.
"We are not entitled to our opinions. We are entitled to our informed opinions." - Harlan Ellison (1934 - 2018)
So...just to be clear...the WWE built a story in the Rumble match, a match which is traditionally uninteresting until it comes down the last few participants and did so by making a monster be a monster which made their eventual Rumble winner, and next championship contender, "look amazing"?
And...you're complaining why?
but it came at the expense of half of the other entrants.
What entrants mattered? He threw out a bunch of midcarders, a couple old-timers and Kofi, who was the first to last the whole minute and a half.
How was Kofi made to look like a sap? He lasted a full five minutes against the monster WWE champion, something no one else could do. And, if memory serves, Strowman was eliminated from the blindside, not one on one.I wasn't one of those people who hated on Reigns pre-leukaemia scare because he at least attempted to have matches that made his opponents look good. And this isn't Kane and the hardcore division in 2001, these are people like Kofi Kingston and Braun Strowman being made to look like saps.
You're doing that annoying thing smarks do where you refuse to watch for the story of the match and overthink the things that do not matter. Every single one of the guys you're worried about were not going to win and we're going to be eliminated by someone. You really think spending an extra 7 minutes in the match only to be eliminated by John Morrison is the difference between Elias getting over and being buried forever? Really?
More from the top of the card? He's the WWE champion, the man who broke the Undertaker's streak, the man who basically jobbed out the greatest of all time in John Cena, and you're upset he eliminated a bunch of glorified jobbers, one guy not good enough yet to be on the main show and a couple of guys who have cemented their level on the card?If you want Lesnar's style of work, there's no shortage of MMA matches available for that. I just expect more from the top of the card, particularly someone who barely qualifies as wrestling part-time.
You're overthinking it. The first half of the Royal Rumble was entertaining, it had a great story, it was memorable, it worked a HUGE pop from the crowd, it put over the eventual Rumble winner, and it built towards the Wrestlemania main-event. You'd be hard pressed to find any other Rumble which can make that claim.
The Royal Rumble is interesting by design. I have no idea why you're suggesting it's a traditionally uninteresting match. I could go on about how each Rumble serves as an exhibition for the talent of a particular year (going back and watching old Rumbles is a favourite past-time of mine), or that it's something I look forward to months in advance because of its novelty, but that's not the main point of your argument.
I have no problem with Lesnar being a monster in the match. My issue is with the execution of said concept and how it exceeded overkill. I'm perfectly fine with Lesnar tieing the elimination record (surpassing it if you don't count GRR as an official Rumble), but the structuring was idiotic in having Lesnar occupy the ring practically unopposed for extended periods of time; keeping him in the match longer would have still gotten the point across without needing him to blitzkrieg nearly half the other participants.. It would be like in the 2011 Rumble if they had the New Nexus eliminate 10 more people during their run before Cena entered. We got the point across about Lesnar being a monster already. Please move on and stop making the rest of the roster look like shit to vindicate a performer paid a fortune per appearance. Drew still would have looked like a killer had he eliminated Lesnar without needing to make Morrison, Kofi, Shinsuke, a returning MVP, Keith Lee and Strowman look like chodes in comparison to Lesnar. The pop for Brock's elimination, I'm willing to wager, came more at the expense of Brock being eliminated rather than being happy for Drew.
The first three eliminations were fine (I found Rowan's elimination questionable, given his recent push, but I don't really care all that much about Rowan so c'est la vie), but it's when it got to Morrison, the guy who originated the Rumble save getting dumped in 9 seconds that it became ridiculous. The Mysterio/New Day segment was OK, but at that point, we got the memo. We didn't need more entrants to be fed needlessly to Lesnar, it's not like MVP was the Honky Tonk Man in the 2001 Rumble; it was a waste of a return. And then of all people, it's Ricochet who survives Lesnar and gives Drew the leverage to eliminate him? Don't get me wrong, I really like Ricochet and he's a phenomenal talent, but if you're just going to carelessly dump people like Braun Strowman in less than 2 minutes, why is Ricochet suddenly sacred from the Lesnar curse?
What entrants mattered? He threw out a bunch of midcarders, a couple old-timers and Kofi, who was the first to last the whole minute and a half.
Again, there's being a monster champion, and then there's turning Lesnar into some omnipotent multiversal entity that even prime Hogan would wince at.How was Kofi made to look like a sap? He lasted a full five minutes against the monster WWE champion, something no one else could do. And, if memory serves, Strowman was eliminated from the blindside, not one on one.
I'm not saying they're going to be "buried forever" (look at McIntyre, he went from losing clean to El Torito to winning the rumble) and I understand they were trying to tell a story about Lesnar being a monster. But as I said earlier, it came across as a handjob to Lesnar more than anything else, and when it starts to impact a myriad of talent who by all accounts could have great matches with Lesnar (or have had great matches with Lesnar), it becomes ridiculous. It only serves to make Lesnar look good.You're doing that annoying thing smarks do where you refuse to watch for the story of the match and overthink the things that do not matter. Every single one of the guys you're worried about were not going to win and we're going to be eliminated by someone. You really think spending an extra 7 minutes in the match only to be eliminated by John Morrison is the difference between Elias getting over and being buried forever? Really?
Yes, I do expect more from Lesnar because I know he's talented. Right now, it's like watching a late career Marlon Brando. You know he's exceptionally talented, and it pisses you off that despite the fact he's not applying himself nearly as well as others on the roster, he's being treated as the greatest monster heel of all-time and his matches are the length of the dark ages of the women's division in the early 00's.More from the top of the card? He's the WWE champion, the man who broke the Undertaker's streak, the man who basically jobbed out the greatest of all time in John Cena, and you're upset he eliminated a bunch of glorified jobbers, one guy not good enough yet to be on the main show and a couple of guys who have cemented their level on the card?
"We are not entitled to our opinions. We are entitled to our informed opinions." - Harlan Ellison (1934 - 2018)
Who said the Rumble match is supposed to make everyone look good? It's not. Brock looked like Brock. He destroyed people he should. It didn't "hurt" anyone. Kofi is dead in the water. No one cares about John Morrison anyway. This match was crafted to tell a few stories - Brock being dominant until Drew got there, Edge's return and Drew winning it all. Again, you're ruining it for yourself due to your odd, smarkish issues with Lesnar and just overthinking the whole thing.
Slyfox696 liked this post
Because I've seen over 30 of them and most are uninteresting until the final few participants.
It's a glorified battle royal. Those generally are not super interesting.
No, it wouldn't. That is what I am afraid you are not understanding.I have no problem with Lesnar being a monster in the match. My issue is with the execution of said concept and how it exceeded overkill. I'm perfectly fine with Lesnar tieing the elimination record (surpassing it if you don't count GRR as an official Rumble), but the structuring was idiotic in having Lesnar occupy the ring practically unopposed for extended periods of time; keeping him in the match longer would have still gotten the point across without needing him to blitzkrieg nearly half the other participants.
What made this Rumble and Lesnar's participation so interesting was exactly what happened. That pop when Lesnar was finally eliminated? That doesn't happen to that extent if Lesnar is made to look like just another guy in the Rumble. McIntyre looking "amazing"? Doesn't happen to the same extent.
Nexus and Lesnar are nowhere near the same level. You're comparing apples to bicycles.It would be like in the 2011 Rumble if they had the New Nexus eliminate 10 more people during their run before Cena entered.
You did...because of the booking. And that's why the crowd popped so big for his elimination.We got the point across about Lesnar being a monster already.
Please move on and stop making the rest of the roster look like shit
No one that mattered looked like shit. MVP doesn't matter. Elias doesn't matter. Bobby Roode doesn't matter. Erick Rowan, John Morrison, Cesaro, Shelton Benjamin all do not matter. The only ones that mattered were Rey (who is already over and being eliminated by Brock isn't going to change that), Kofi (who is already over and was the first to last the full time with Lesnar), Braun Strowman (who got Pearl Harbored in his elimination) and MAYBE Keith Lee (who is not yet on the main roster). That's it.
This is professional wrestling. People don't pay for the undercard. No one Lesnar eliminated either mattered or looked bad.
Why does this matter to you? Lesnar is a dominant champion and a draw, one of the very few the WWE has. And you're saying they should not push their draw because Elias needs yet more time to suck in the ring?to vindicate a performer paid a fortune per appearance.
Not to the same extent. And it would not have nearly been as good of a build to start the Wrestlemania storyline. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.Drew still would have looked like a killer had he eliminated Lesnar
without needing to make Morrison, Kofi, Shinsuke, a returning MVP, Keith Lee and Strowman look like chodes in comparison to Lesnar.
Who cares for Morrison or MVP? Morrison is 40 years old, MVP is 46. Do you really think those guys were the next main-event draws?
I've already explained multiple times about why you're wrong about Kofi. Keith Lee is a minor leaguer and if his career is hurt by being only one of two men to go the full time with Lesnar without being eliminated, then Lee has no future. Strowman wasn't eliminated man to man with Lesnar, he was caught from behind. And Shinsuke? When has the WWE ever shown they can promote a foreign wrestler who does not communicate well in English?
You're getting your feathers ruffled because you seem to think booking pro wrestling is like booking the game EWR. It's not. Triple H got squashed at Wrestlemania by Warrior, in a largely unforgettable run by Warrior, yet it was just a couple years later he was upper midcard before going on to a Hall of Fame career.
The WWE doesn't care about a bunch of 40 year workers who were never good enough to get out of the midcard. They don't care about minor leaguers getting beaten by main-eventers. And the WWE is right to feel that way.
If Elias had eliminated Lesnar, do you REALLY think that pop would be the same? If Lesnar hadn't eliminated anyone and was in the Rumble for 15 minutes, do you REALLY think that pop would have been the same?The pop for Brock's elimination, I'm willing to wager, came more at the expense of Brock being eliminated rather than being happy for Drew.
We both know you wouldn't really wager that. What made it so special is EXACTLY what Lesnar did. And here you are, over a week later, still mad that the heel got his way. Geez...if only the WWE had the forsight to work not just the live audience, but the "smart" audience as well...
Of course people were happy Brock got eliminated. That was the point. And who eliminated him? The guy who is likely to face him at Wrestlemania. It's pro wrestling booking 101.
Yes, why didn't the WWE protect the low level midcarder who is 40 years old?The first three eliminations were fine (I found Rowan's elimination questionable, given his recent push, but I don't really care all that much about Rowan so c'est la vie), but it's when it got to Morrison, the guy who originated the Rumble save getting dumped in 9 seconds that it became ridiculous.
C'mon, you're being a little silly with this one. Morrison is a nobody in the grand scheme of things. He was hired for EXACTLY this kind of reason. He has a name people remember, he's probably a decent hand in the ring and that's it. Morrison likely is never seriously touching the main-event.
True...while Honkey and MVP were roughly the same age, Honkey Tonk Man actually had a small bit of legacy in pro wrestling.The Mysterio/New Day segment was OK, but at that point, we got the memo. We didn't need more entrants to be fed needlessly to Lesnar, it's not like MVP was the Honky Tonk Man in the 2001 Rumble;
Of course, that's not really what you mean, was it?
MVP is 46 years old and is a "never was". What return exactly did you think MVP was going to have?it was a waste of a return.
So...you're upset that two 40 year olds who never moved past the midcard got eliminated but are ALSO upset that the "talent[ed]" guy just entering his prime and has a little bit of heat behind him didn't get eliminated?And then of all people, it's Ricochet who survives Lesnar and gives Drew the leverage to eliminate him? Don't get me wrong, I really like Ricochet and he's a phenomenal talent, but if you're just going to carelessly dump people like Braun Strowman in less than 2 minutes, why is Ricochet suddenly sacred from the Lesnar curse?
I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from here, unless your making a "business" argument against Lesnar based solely on your personal preferences. If that's what this is, then surely I do not need to explain to you the flaw in that logic, correct?
You mean...like Andre the Giant?Again, there's being a monster champion, and then there's turning Lesnar into some omnipotent multiversal entity that even prime Hogan would wince at.
Only to people who are trying to make a "business" argument but clearly have not very good ideas about how the business works.I'm not saying they're going to be "buried forever" (look at McIntyre, he went from losing clean to El Torito to winning the rumble) and I understand they were trying to tell a story about Lesnar being a monster. But as I said earlier, it came across as a handjob to Lesnar more than anything else
Look at the arguments you're making. They basically boil down to "But the WWE hurt the drawing potential of their midcarders who already don't draw by having the WWE's only mega draw beat them". That's essentially your argument. You acknowledge the story was good. You acknowledge the pop was great. You acknowledge the story helped make McIntyre "look amazing". You have seemingly agreed the match helped build a Wrestlemania main-event. Your argument basically comes down to you think the WWE hurt the drawing potential of guys who have never really shown a great ability to draw. And that's why you think it was a "handjob" to Lesnar. Not because of the story or because of kayfabe, but because you're concerned about the WWE's business.
The problem is the things you are saying do not make good business sense. Morrison and MVP are not draws, will likely never be and are likely only in for a short run to put people over. They are in their 40s, the WWE is not planning on hitching their wagon to them. Kofi and Keith Lee went the full distance with Lesnar, a mini version of Rocky vs. Apollo Creed. Kofi is already upper midcard/main-event level and Lee is a minor leaguer. They weren't hurt. Elias is entertaining enough, but only until the bell rings and then he's a dud. Rowan, Roode, Big E, Cesaro...losing to Lesnar doesn't hurt them because they've been around for years and no one expects them to beat Lesnar anyways.
Your business sense is off and it's the only argument you really have.
Again, your business sense is off. How many of those guys do you really think will ever work with Lesnar? Lesnar is a star attraction, he's not working with Cesaro. Again, this is not EWR.and when it starts to impact a myriad of talent who by all accounts could have great matches with Lesnar (or have had great matches with Lesnar), it becomes ridiculous.
Yes, and how awful the WWE wanted to make their World Champion and the biggest draw on the card look good before the biggest show of the year where he will be working in a match in which he will likely try to put his opponent over into the main-event.It only serves to make Lesnar look good.
Again, your business sense is off.
Wait...you want Brock Lesnar to have longer matches? Why?Yes, I do expect more from Lesnar because I know he's talented. Right now, it's like watching a late career Marlon Brando. You know he's exceptionally talented, and it pisses you off that despite the fact he's not applying himself nearly as well as others on the roster, he's being treated as the greatest monster heel of all-time and his matches are the length of the dark ages of the women's division in the early 00's.
Again, your business sense is off.
They booked that shit perfectly.
Brock eliminated jobbers and midcarders with ease. Top guys (New Day/Mysterio) and guys who have potential (Lee and Ricochet) got offense in, and lasted for a 3rd guy. Strowman got offense in and got caught distracted by Keith Lee (yet another great booking decision as I did not know I wanted to see a Lee/Strowman match until that showdown). Hell, they even threw a comedy bit in there with Shelton Benjamin that was great.
Being there in person, the only issue I saw with the Brock portion of the rumble was that there may have been a bit too long of a break between easy eliminations. Once a guy was out throw the clock up to keep the action going, who cares if it was only 45 seconds. Commentary may have filled in the time better than just looking around or chatting with your seat-mates.
At the end of the day, Brock didn't hurt anyone, but a bunch of potential matchups were built for now or down the line:
- Brock vs. Drew McIntyre
- Brock vs. Ricochet
- Brock vs. Keith Lee (Mania 37?)
- Keith Lee vs. Braun Strowman
Also, Having Brock go through the midcard portion of the Rumble made the last half of the Rumble nothing but pretty big names, meaning we had non-stop excitement for the entire rest of the night.
Finally. Drew McIntyre was a heel going into the night. They made him a top babyface in 1 night by eliminating Brock Lesnar, Roman Reigns, and King Corbin. Sure they'd love him for eliminating Brock, but Reigns was a heavy favorite to win, and Corbin is the best heel in WWE (and arguably all of wrestling).
Back to the topic at hand:
I'm really looking forward to Drew McIntyre vs. Brock Lesnar, and I think they are building Drew up to be the guy to take him down. Before the rumble, it would have been difficult since Drew was a heel. Now it works.
IYO SKY, Shotzi, Bayley, Gigi Dolan, Alba Fyre, Asuka, Kayla Braxton.
Still Here. LD regular.
Slyfox696 liked this post
So who had money on Brock Lesnar carrying this feud by being on TV more often than Drew McIntyre? Lesnar has been on 2 of the past 3 weeks and I don't remember the last time we saw Drew. I think they did a sit down interview a few weeks ago?
Credit to Brock for showing up, although I guess it isn't surprising he supposedly doesn't like people so he would like to work when there is no people...
IYO SKY, Shotzi, Bayley, Gigi Dolan, Alba Fyre, Asuka, Kayla Braxton.
Still Here. LD regular.
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