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Thread: Unpopular/Controversial Opinions

  1. #181
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar

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    I hate when people try to rewrite history in regards to media. E.g. old Tom an Jerry cartoons, Airplane and recently Guns N Roses with the rerelease of Appetite Fr Destruction and omitting the song One In A Million.

    I get that these things are considered taboo now (racist caricatures in Tom and Jerry, sexism in Airplane and racist and homophobic language in regards to GnR) But it was a product of its time and we should learn from them instead of pretending these things didn't happen.

    Put a disclaimer in regards to it and explain the details but don't erase it

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I hate when people try to rewrite history in regards to media. E.g. old Tom an Jerry cartoons, Airplane and recently Guns N Roses with the rerelease of Appetite Fr Destruction and omitting the song One In A Million.

    I get that these things are considered taboo now (racist caricatures in Tom and Jerry, sexism in Airplane and racist and homophobic language in regards to GnR) But it was a product of its time and we should learn from them instead of pretending these things didn't happen.

    Put a disclaimer in regards to it and explain the details but don't erase it
    I agree with this. Disney will probably never release Songs of The South due to racist connotations and as someone who wants to collect all the animated Disney films, and that I donĂ¢??t ever remember seeing this film, i find it annoying

  3. #183
    Senior Member Fallout's Avatar

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    If anything, Dumbo is far more racist than Song Of The South. Uncle Remus is an awesome character, played by an awesome actor.

    "We are not entitled to our opinions. We are entitled to our informed opinions." - Harlan Ellison (1934 - 2018)

  4. #184
    Senior Member Spidey's Avatar
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    There is the whole downplaying what the black people are doing at the plantation that might come across as worse than crows not seeing an elephant fly.

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  6. #185
    Senior Member Fallout's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidercanrana View Post
    There is the whole downplaying what the black people are doing at the plantation that might come across as worse than crows not seeing an elephant fly.
    I don't think the point of the movie is to get caught up on that. Adults watching the film probably know what was going on, but to me, SOTS is a movie that's actually against racism, given how they portray the Remus character. Dumbo had the crows in plain sight, and it wasn't for any kind of commentary, like Fritz The Cat, it was just...really stereotypical crows.

    "We are not entitled to our opinions. We are entitled to our informed opinions." - Harlan Ellison (1934 - 2018)

  7. #186
    Senior Member Spidey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout View Post
    I don't think the point of the movie is to get caught up on that. Adults watching the film probably know what was going on, but to me, SOTS is a movie that's actually against racism, given how they portray the Remus character. Dumbo had the crows in plain sight, and it wasn't for any kind of commentary, like Fritz The Cat, it was just...really stereotypical crows.
    There are more black characters than Remus, but I get your point. I'm not wholly against Song coming out of the vault. Same reason why I'm not against seeing The Birth of a Nation. It's historically important to know these films and I'm against censorship. They're a study of the times. But I will definitely disagree that children won't pick up on what is -and most definitely isn't- being depicted in the movie, especially if the children grew up on what slavery was which every black kid in America certainly has. And there is a difference in stereotypes and racism for sure. The birds are a shit portrayal of black men speaking jive no doubt, but they're not in a position that is better or worse than the other characters in Dumbo. They're just there cracking jokes. It's obvious that the white characters in Song are in a position of power, and the black people are off working someplace vague enough for us to draw our own conclusions.

    Jim Crow vs. Uncle Remus is an interesting character discussion though.

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  9. #187
    Senior Member Fallout's Avatar

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    I don't think the movie is saying that white people being in power is a good thing though. On the contrary, the story is about a boy breaking barriers and the conclusion reflects that. It's quite similar to The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas to me in that it's a movie about criticising prejudice, and they both have a similar story, although obviously TBITSP has a much darker ending and is intended for an adult audience. I guess I'll say it's weird for it to be made by Disney (their first live-action movie IIRC?) for kids, but I don't attribute malice to it.

    And it kind of did break down barriers in a way. James Baskett was the first African-American to win an Oscar.

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  10. #188
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar

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    I remember as a kid I used to think Mammy Two Shoes (the black lady in Tom ad Jerry) was the owner of the house ad Tom's owner as well. The blackface gags in Tom ad Jerry I just assumed were smoke from explosions that caused them and nothing else.

    I didn't find out the racial connotations until I was older and my dad mentioned it. Same with the stuff from Dumbo.

    Maybe I was just naive but as a kid I never saw these things, but it is important that people learn about the history of this stuff.

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I hate when people try to rewrite history in regards to media. E.g. old Tom an Jerry cartoons, Airplane and recently Guns N Roses with the rerelease of Appetite Fr Destruction and omitting the song One In A Million.

    I get that these things are considered taboo now (racist caricatures in Tom and Jerry, sexism in Airplane and racist and homophobic language in regards to GnR) But it was a product of its time and we should learn from them instead of pretending these things didn't happen.

    Put a disclaimer in regards to it and explain the details but don't erase it
    Ideally, I think that's what should be done but then you also have some people who try to complicate things more than they already are, or even need to be. Especially among African Americans, you've got such differing opinions on the subject. Some thing it's okay for close friends, of any color, to use the N word amongst themselves, some feel it's only for black people, some feel it shouldn't be said by anyone. As far as racial, sexist or homophobic content in films or TV, you still have similar opinions. Some want it erased because they feel to keep it in place somehow equals endorsing it, some feel that some examples are okay and some aren't, some want it all gone, some want none of it gone and nobody's ultimately happy until they get their way. Whomever gets their way is happy while everyone else will drone on with one lecture after the other about how their perspective is the only way to go.

    Revisionist history in Hollywood is nothing new and has been going on forever, almost from the very beginning of cinema as a business. A great example is D.W. Griffith's The Birth of a Nation in 1915 that portrayed the KKK as a heroic group protecting the morals of Christianity and the purity of white womanhood from blacks, who were depicted as these slobbering savages looking to rape white women., it, along with Gone with the Wind, painted pictures of the old south that weren't remotely accurate. As far as Gone with the Wind goes, the book and film glamorizes the old Antebellum South in a way that just wasn't remotely true. The men weren't all these dashing, gallant, noble beings who try to behave as though they're knights in King Arthur's court, the women weren't these dainty, fragile little flowers who couldn't see straight without a man showing them how or that they were these spoiled brats, but the worst was the portrayal of blacks in the film and in the book as content in their way of life; it kept the image of the "dumb, happy darkie" as something that millions of people believed was true for generations because GWTW was so insanely popular.

    With the way the world is connected these days, the actual history of things can be discovered because nothing's ever truly gone. It does get annoying when you have people try to revise history to suit their own designs but, truth is, I'm sort of at a point now where I don't really care all that much right now. I'm just worn down over the constant fighting and often making federal cases out of damn near nothing.
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  13. #190
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